Welcome to episode #163 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview Joel Erway
Joel Erway has been creating and delivering effective sales presentations for more than 8 years with sales totaling more than $10Million as a direct result.
They help Online Course Creators, Coaches, and Consultants leverage Webinars to sell their products and services, book phone appointments and generate qualified sales leads.
The goal of The Webinar Agency is to educate its visitors, users, and customers on how to leverage webinars, funnels, sales messaging, and marketing techniques in their business for growth and success.
In this episode, we talk about
- How to create high converting webinars
- What works now in the webinar industry
- The future of webinars
Connect with Joel Erway
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– Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert Biz a Show today. I’m here with the one and only Joel Erway. How are you doing Joel?
– Hey, what’s up Simone? Thanks for having me on.
– It’s brilliant now, it’s time to swap sides. It’s time to swap sides, I’ve been interviewed recently on your show, which was a brilliant show, I really loved that. And now it’s time for me to grill you a bit. Are you ready for that?
– Yeah. I’m ready man, let’s rock and roll.
– That’s brilliant. So I want to ask first, we’re going to talk about webinars. What’s trending right now with webinars, what’s working on very well. But how did you get into webinars? Well where were your first steps into the webinar world.
– Yeah so I came into the webinar space kind of through, my background is in engineering, so I graduated from Mechanical Engineering School back in 2009. No intention of doing webinars or sales presentations. So the way that I kind of backed into all of this was, I only lasted about eight months in my engineering role as a typical design engineer. I just couldn’t sit behind a desk, I couldn’t operate behind a computer without any sort of engagement. Go to school for five years, only last eight months with that degree I quickly transitioned into a, I grabbed a new job as a sales engineer where I was responsible for growing a new territory from scratch. And so the primary method of drumming up business, we would have to give these sales presentations. Now when we first started, I wasn’t the one giving the sales presentations. We’d bring our reps, we’d bring our manufacturers through and they would give the presentations. After two or three years our sales were pretty stagnant. I mean we weren’t making a whole lot of progress. We were making sales but it was really really hard work. And I saw that there was a huge opportunity with our sales presentation, that was the primary lead gen for us. And we weren’t generating many leads. And nobody in my company had really looked at that. They’re like, well the manufacturer does it, just let them do it, they never looked at optimising that piece. So I saw it and I’m like, number one, I can’t just wait for these, ’cause these manufacturers flew in from all over the country, all over the world. So I was really just kind of held at their will, whenever they could make it into town. It was usually once a year, once every other year at best. So I’m like well, if I need to generate more leads, I need to do more of these presentations and they suck anyways, so I need to do them better. So as I was travelling around the country visiting these manufacturers, I would every time that I stopped in a layover in a terminal, I would grab a book on how to give an effective sales presentation. After two or three books that I bought, I saw some very clear patterns of what you’re supposed to be doing and I redid some of the presentations and I gave them on my behalf of my manufacturers. And that was when sales really started to take off. And I understood really what they were doing wrong and I changed the presentations and instantly we saw a huge huge lift in sales and revenue. Just from me re-writing the presentations. So I give that to start, because that’s really what I came from, giving in person sale presentations. So after, grew that territory, I did very very well. I caught the entrepreneurial itch and I transitioned into my own thing.
– That’s a bad itch.
– I know, this is a bad itch.
– When it gets you, it like ah, itches like crazy, you gotta scratch it.
– Yeah it’s the fire ant itch, you can never get rid of it. So I decided to go off and do my own thing. I wrote a book to start, I did some coaching and tutoring to bring in some revenue. And ultimately after a couple of failed ventures, I wouldn’t call them failed but, learning experiences, I realised I needed to learn the art of digital marketing. So I hired a coach, and he’s the one who introduced me to sales webinars. I’m like okay cool well, I’ve done them before, I’m comfortable doing them. I didn’t realise that I could do a webinar and sell directly on a presentation. So I learned his style, and I put my own flavour to it but just started really practising it. And I was actually making sales, it was with my course but there were other parts of my business model that causing me to be not profitable. And I didn’t realise that at the time. Looking back, I see how close I really was to really hitting a home run with what I was doing before. But ultimately I ran out of ad spend money, I ran out of cash to continue that. And I reached out to my coach and I said, “Hey man, I’m out “of cash, I love your coaching programme though. “Is there anyway that I could work for you “to generate some revenue on the side?” or whatever, and I actually offered to be a phone salesperson because I knew that he was generating more leads for his coaching programme. I was the perfect testimonial ’cause I really did love his coaching programme, I just ran out of personal funds for ads. And so he said, “Sorry man, “I don’t have any openings right now “but what you should do is you should connect “with this guy Jason,” and “He’s looking for a phone “salesperson to follow up with leads on his webinar. “He’s doing a weekly live webinar and he wants somebody “to close those deals over the phone.” So I’m like, okay cool. Hook up with Jason, Jason’s like, “Let’s do it, watch my webinar first, “so you know what I’m selling “and then follow up with all the people who didn’t buy.” Which was a lot of people, I mean he was making about one sale a week on a live webinar for his $1000 course. So he’s like watch the webinar, I watched the webinar and I’m like man this sucks. So I approached him, I’m like, “Hey man, out of curiosity,”. To be honest, I had no experience in phone sales. I was just hustling, I knew that–
– You were learning while you were doing it.
– Yep exactly. So I’m like, “Hey man,” I said this in nicer words, but I said, your webinar kind of blows, and would it be okay if I took a stab at improving this for you? And he was like, “Absolutely dude, like of course, I hate doing webinars. “So if you rewrite it, like I just know “that I need to do it right?”
– If you take a stab at it and you present it, go for it. So he was making about one sale per week, with his live webinar. Two weeks later, I took his presentation, I delivered it on his behalf and we did 14 sales that week of a $1000 course. So he went from $1000 a week to $14000 a week.
– So, that is what launched me into the webinar space. Because number one, it was valuable for my clients. And number two it paid me very well, I took 10% of the sales when I was working with him, it was just a 10% revenue split. So that made me like 15 hundred bucks which was a lot more money than I had made, and it was all profit ’cause I wasn’t running any of the adds, I’m like this is awesome.
– Yeah, it’s all cash and you were delivering it and,
– And I didn’t have to–
– you didn’t put a lot of time in it once you’ve done the first one.
– Yep. So that was the first big win for me, of generating consistent revenue as an entrepreneur. And the rest is history. My name just, people started referring people to me I started building webinars. I did a couple where I was actually delivering for them. That’s obviously not scalable but that is how we launched the webinar agency back in early 2015.
– That’s so cool. I have a question for you now.
– Of course.
– How did you find, do you still deliver some of the webinars for your clients? Or do you not do that anymore?
– Not at this point. So when we have recorded automated webinars or what I call mini webinars and recorder presentations. I do have somebody on my team who can do it, so he can record those presentations and produce them for them, but me personally? No I haven’t done it in probably two years.
– Right and the reason why I’m asking it is because part of the service that we offer when we do the seminar is doing a similar thing but for seminar selling. Which costs a lot of money, but I know I can get conversions. So when we are, I always know my conversions, as long as I believe in the product, I believe in the service, I get the market. So that’s why I was curious to see what was the number.
– So you’ll do, how many, yeah how long are your seminars that you do for your clients?
– Evening, evening, yeah, it could be evening seminars, but it sometimes it could be even a day seminar or a weekend seminar.
– Okay so it’s just a single presentation, it’s not a three day seminar.
– Yeah, its, nah nah nah, or if it’s a three day seminar, I will be there for one day of the three days. But they need to pay me a lot up front plus revenue share, plus plus plus. For me to be there, but that something is a model that I love in particular because there are some people that are cash rich and time poor, and will say, I know it will take me years to be at the level of mastery, do it for me. But allow you to find that you scale it, so now you have someone in your team that can do those presentations as well for your clients. Because that’s I think is one of the biggest problems in anythings that involves presentation. If you’re not great at delivering presentation, you can have the best line deck in the world it ain’t gonna convert.
– Yep. 100%.
– So I want now to move and transition into how do you see the webinar industry right now? We are mid 2018, what’s working right now, what’s not working, what’s the status of the webinar industry right now?
– Great question, so the way that I see right now is, webinars have become more and more popular, I mean just like everything. I don’t want to say it’s getting saturated, ’cause I believe that webinars, okay the word webinar is just a digitised version of a sales presentation right? And you do in person sales seminars and sales presentations. And the main, the main value that people get when they attend a sales presentation is what? It’s the engagement and the interaction and the connection with somebody right there, right?
– So whenever somebody says, oh webinars are dying, it’s like, well you have to define what you mean by a webinar. If you’re talking like an automated sales presentation where you’re trying to automate it and scale it to the moon, and depending on what market you serve, maybe it is. Because when internet marketers get their hands on something they’ll ruin it for everybody, because they’re just gonna flood it and do the whole nine yards. But an actual sales presentation, a sales seminar will never go out of style, because you have that human to human interaction and there’s nothing like it. You can tailor your message to it, you can rebound, you can answer questions, and you can have that engagement live. That’s what makes a webinar so effective. Now what I’ve seen lately is people following scripts and formulas right? That they can buy for seven bucks on the internet and that is getting–
– Making no names.
– That is getting way over played, way over played because now everybody is using, they’re taking all the creativity out of it. They’re like well I used these specific closes that I bought in this script, and you know it doesn’t sound like me, but why am I not making conversions? Or I have the same introduction as this other webinar that I have modelled. It’s just like any sort of copy and sales presentation, it all depends on your market. I’ll give you an example, just this past week, I’ve been working with Eric Siu, who runs Single Grain and he’s partnered with Neil Patel. And he’s like hey man, I want you to help me with my webinar, I’m like great, cool. So he’s got an awesome product, dude is super smart, an excellent marketer and he was trying to sell a certain product to an audience and after the first webinar I saw, I could see that he was kind of using some of the scripts, that he was trying to use some of the scripts that he had seen on the internet. I’m like listen man, we gotta figure out, number one, really who is your audience. ‘Cause he was definitely targeting a more affluent audience I’m like, and if you’re trying to use an internet marketer’s script, who is trying to sell business opportunity to people who are much more responsive to hypey language, your conversions are going to tank. Because people will see right through it. So it’s that balance, you have to understand, number one as the presenter, what are you most comfortable with? That is golden rule number one, because if you’re following a script that you’re not comfortable with, it will come through. And people will see that you are not comfortable and you’re trying to sell them something and that is not what you want to do. And number two, what is your market actually going to respond to, right? It’s not like there’s magic words that get people to… I mean there are specific words that get people to take action. But don’t copy someone else’s, in a different market, don’t copy their words that work for them, and their closing techniques that work for them. We have to figure out what actually works for your audience that maintains your brand and that’s the overarching goal.
– Well what I’m hearing you saying is about leveraging of the uniqueness of the presenter.
– And what the presenter that person would sound like in a normal interaction. How you would sell your course if you didn’t have to use this script which is given from someone else? And then put your creativity in there, so then when someone actually sees your webinar, and stays there because it’s not the repetition and the same thing that I’ve listened to the day before, from the other guy down the road Which unfortunately, I can see the parallels with seminars and with webinars, I think every time we talk about sales presentation, this is a very relevant fact. When mentioning as well, what’s working right now, is there somethings that used to work, like two, three, four years ago, and right now , if you do the same thing, it will be like uh, you might not get great results with this. Given the scenario that the presentation is right, you’re engaging, you are unique, I’m more talking about strategic level.
– Yeah so kind of what’s been evolving over the last few years, is like very very clearly, automated webinars are, they’re very difficult to get up and running. Even if you have the presentation that you know converts to a live audience, like we have seen, getting that automated and building that automated funnel to work on autopilot, those are two completely seperate skill sets. It’s very very difficult to make that work. And I hope that everybody can turn their webinar and make it automated. What I have seen with emails, you know email open rates are dropping. Email’s still super super powerful, I’m just kind of showing the trends of what’s happened over the past three years. You know, email open rates are dropping and people driving cold traffic to a automated webinar funnel. Which depending on the market, like I do and I don’t, if it’s a business opportunity that can work. But it is so very market specific, where you plug in your webinar as a conversion mechanism. But that automated webinar funnel which is what everybody wants, they wanna make sales on autopilot. It is becoming more and more difficult to make that work. And when you make it work, it’s awesome, ride that until the cows come home. Like Dillard has a very very solid auto webinar that has been consistently producing him three to $400.000 per month for the past three years. And that’s just cold traffic, webinar registration, and it plays twice a day and it sells a $1500 product. Everybody looks at that and they’re like, I want one of those. Number one, Mike Dillard is a freaking fantastic copywriter.
– Is Mike Dillard, and Mike Dillard is Mike Dillard
– Yep, he’s been around, so he’s got brand equity, that’s built up so people know his name and they automatically have a level of trust that’s associated with him. But people will see those results, like that’s what I want. Joel or Simone I want you to build one of those for me. And it’s like, let’s pump the breaks, let’s kind of back up and let’s see what’s going on. But the automated webinar, very very powerful. It just takes a lot of effort to get that dialled in.
– Do you still use automated webinar for your business?
– So direct selling, no. We will be implementing, we’re launching a new brand coming up called Experts Unleashed which will be launching very very shortly and we are planning to use an automated direct selling webinar for that. When I go automated I usually go automated webinars for phone consultations, or automated mini webinars for phone consultations. And that’s what I have leveraged over the last three years the most. When I do direct selling webinars, I’m usually on there live selling it. We could talk about this if you want, I’m not sure if it’s relevant to your audience. Your product, what you’re actually selling is quite possibly the most important element in determining if you use a webinar as your sales mechanism or not. And that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t used an automated webinar to sell what I’ve got.
– Right, you make a very good point, because at the end of the day, you’re always selling from the end in mind. The end is, we want to sell this product, and this is the audience that will buy it. So which one is the best way to get in touch with the audience so they can buy the product at it’s price point.
– And that is sales 101 which unfortunately a lot of people forget because they get bogged down to the tactics of, oh my god I need to make sales in autopilot otherwise, otherwise I’m not successful in this industry unless I make this thing happening. Talking about your live webinar. So you’re doing a live webinar, right now you mentioned that the product is important and is crucial to decide if you are doing a live webinar, an automated webinar, webinar or no webinar at all. But if you had to choose between webinar to consultation and webinar to direct sale, which one do you think is the most powerful?
– Okay, so with your target audience, I will say webinar to consultation and here’s why. When I’m launching a brand new offer, I wanna get people on the phone as quickly as possible, right? And I use a webinar to pre-sell them, I want to educate them on the opportunity and pre-sell them so I’m only talking with qualified people, right? When you do a direct selling webinar you are, and assuming you don’t have a crazy indoctrination funnel where you can use a direct selling webinar to sell a $10000 product, ‘ cause they do need more time to make that decision, versus if you get them.
– Put your credit card in, geez.
– Right. Typically speaking, with 99.999% of the funnels that I see out there, a direct selling webinar you’re going to be limited to $1500 to $2000 price point, very very max, right, with the majority of the webinars that I see out there. With a consultation I can sell anything that I want, and I can sell almost any price point that I want. Perfect example, we have a client who we launched, so this is last week, we launched a mini webinar funnel and we were generating him qualified appointments for $19 a piece. He spent a total of 120 bucks, he generated six appointments and applications, so for $20 a piece,
– that’s so good.
– And people are naturally going to say, oh were they qualified and did they actually show up? Yes, he talked to all of them, three of them have follow up sales conversations. He just closed one of them yesterday for $8000 down and a total sale of $70000, and he has two more follow ups
– Sweet, that’s a good ROI, that’s a bloody good ROI, geez.
– And he would not have been able to do anything close to that if he were trying to sell directly on the phone. Or I’m sorry, directly on the webinar,
– On the webinar.
– this was all phone consultation. So my highest leverage point is getting those phone leads first, right? Getting to 50K a month, that kind of my golden number when I’m testing new offers, I want to get to 50K a month before I then start to reinvest into my time. How can I get more time back, I’m having phone consultations, I’m gathering market research, and I’m making offers and sales right?
– If I can’t get to $50000 a month, then I know something is off with with my offer. And that allows me to pivot, getting on the phone allows me to pivot and understand that. Until I get to $50000 in sales, once I hit that, then I’ll invest into automation or hiring a phone sales team to take me off the phone or some sort of other type of direct selling webinar. But that’s the kind of the mentality that I go through.
– That’s brilliant, and at the moment, when people book the consultation, do you do the consultations or do you have a sales team doing the consultations? What’s the model that you’re currently using?
– So to start, I’m always the one who does it, ’cause I want to look at the data, I want to talk to them and I know that I will always have, actually I’m actually a terrible phone salesperson, but when you’re the expert and you’re selling it you will naturally
– It’s different, yeah.
– have a higher, you’ll have a higher closing rate. ‘Cause if you’re the one that’s especially fulfilling on it, they’re gonna wanna talk to you anyway. But to answer your question, when I’m first starting out, I will do the phone sales, and I will talk to the people, ’cause I want to know what do they want, what are their objections, what do they need, and where are they stuck? So all those things that I will be able to get data from, and then I can make them the appropriate offer. And I always have multiple offers in my back pocket when I get on the phone. So I start out on the phone, and then once we get something that I know is converting, we’ve got the right message, we’ve got the right audience and we’re getting them consistently on the phone, then I hire a phone sales team.
– I see.
– Have them start taking the calls and then we do other types of methods of scale to close more deals. And then if we really want to, we’ll build a live direct selling webinar, that we might do once a week. Test that, ’cause that has to go through it’s own iteration, because now you’re talking to a different segment of your market, have to make sure that you get those specific pay points, we’ll be much further along in the process ’cause we’ve already done phase one with the phone, that’s phase two, is live direct selling like a weekly webinar, phase three is automating and scaling, automating the webinar, building that automated funnel and going from there.
– It’s so refreshing because there are a lot of people that they already have a nice business, you know they might be listening. And they think they need invest this crazy, or months to create this automated webinar, or this very complex webinar funnel, while they can just have something of much simpler. Where you jump on a phone call with them after the webinar, and that’s all you got to do. So pick out your webinar and a booking page, I’m assuming directly linked to your calendar, so people can book their time in while they’re on the webinar. And do you give any type of scarcity, like you can book the call only while you’re on the webinar, or they can book the call even after the webinar? What do you find works the best in that way?
– It all comes down to brand. So whatever you’re most comfortable with then you have to kind of work backwards and figure out what type of scarcity and urgency that you want to use. For my client that we worked with last week. The scarcity was that he was looking to partner with two clients. And that was a legit scarcity. We didn’t put scarcity on the number of calls that he was going to take, he just made a very clear offer, saying listen I’m looking to work with two clients this week, right? So here’s what we want to do, here’s my offer, here’s what I want to do for you, I’m looking to work with two clients this week, if you’re interested let’s fill out the application and then we’ll book a time to talk, right? And so the scarcity was really, I’m working with two clients. I have opened up my calendar this week to take calls and find the right fit, and that worked very very well. So my automated webinar is currently not running right now because we’re booked on leads, and we’re solid. So when I was running my automated webinar, it was basically, hey listen we have spots open for my coaching programme right now, I don’t know how long it’s going to be open, it was all very very legit ’cause we did end up closing it down when we filled up. So it’s like listen, if you’re watching this webinar right now that means that we do have spots still open, so I encourage you to take action now. But honestly, the biggest urgency, one of the best ways of providing legit urgency is just saying, is letting them know, we want to help you as soon as humanly possible. The longer that you wait, the longer it’s gonna delay yourself from getting results, right? And that’s usually good enough just to get them on the phone. You don’t have to do any sort of crazy sales tactics, be like oh I just need to get on the phone, right? ‘Cause the more you push them onto the phone, the higher the likelihood of them not showing is actually going to happen.
– ‘Cause people are obsessed with scarcity and they put like insane level of scarcity, where sometimes it feels like, you know what I don’t need this, I actually enjoyed what you said, and I would have jumped on a call with you anyway. Because you tapped into the right thing that I needed to hear, for me to make the decision. So whether there are five places or hundred places, I would have booked the call anyway. Before we go on the lifting the veil part, I have one more question. Which is, when you are doing the webinar to phone call, do you mention the price of the offer, or is that a bit of mystery and intrigue, to say this is the result that you’re going to get by working together, jump on a call and we’ll let you know more details?
– Great question, so the way that I approach that, when somebody asks me oh do I reveal the price or do I withhold it so I can talk to them and really build the value? Whenever I hear that question, people are really asking, number one, they want to make sure that they’re only talking to the most qualified people, right?
– So if you don’t reveal the price, your chances of getting people who can’t afford your programme go up because you’re not adding that level of filtering. However, with all sales, there’s an opportunity, you still want to have to opportunity to conquer their objections and build the value, which is the whole purpose of the sales call. Because on the sales call, or on the assessment call, the consultation call whatever you want to call it. Your job is to kind of extract their pain, figure out how much their pain is really worth and then talking about what your value is, when you’re not really saying it in these direct terms but then showing what your real value is so they can see for themselves like yes it’s really worth it. Because if you just came out and said, yeah hey Simone, I’m totally interested in your programme, and you just come out and you’re like yeah it’s 10 grand. In their mind they’re not sold, maybe they’re sold on it, but a lot of people still need to be sold on the value before they buy into it.
– Depends how much a relationship they have with you, how warm or hot they are, for how long they’ve been following you, there are a bunch of stuff that matter.
– Earlier in our conversation, well I don’t know if actually if I mentioned this but I, oh I told you I have multiple offers, like I usually have multiple offers in my back pocket right? So the way that I’ve been able to kind of conquer this, revealing the price without cannibalising my opportunity, because if you tell people that like yeah it’s a $10000 price on the webinar and you want to hop on the phone and just make sure that they’re a good fit, your applications are gonna drop dramatically. You will get super qualified people and you should be able to close all of them that get on the phone.
– Yeah, they’re already in, like literally it’s give me the credit card details that becomes the close at that point.
– Yep, so here’s where I kind of married the two. So I will tell them that like, hey listen, right? Obviously I’ve got an offer on the call, and I make it very transparent like we’re gonna figure out if this a good fit, and if it is then I’ll invite you into the programme. There are a couple of options that we have, right? So people are probably wondering about the price, here’s what I’ll do. Depending on the level of service you get from me, will depend on the programme and the investment that is required for you. What that means is like, my fees or my programmes range from let’s say, $2000 to $25000, right? So I give that range, they know like okay cool, this isn’t a $50 programme. right?
– Yep, yep.
– So I give the low range and then I give my absolute highest range, knowing that the vast majority are probably going to be somewhere in the middle. But now they’re price anchored, they’re like okay cool, Simone has a $50000 programme and he also has a $2000 programme, right? So when I talk to him or his team, they’ll figure out what the best option is. So if you come in with like yeah, you know what, the best option for you is my $6000 level, right? They know that there’s a 25K, there is a lot of juxtaposition that happens there.
– I love it, I absolutely love it, yeah I can see that working very well.
– So I give them the range.
– You give them the range so then they understand what is the minimum investment, but also they also see the value of the maximum investment and that will attract some certain level of people that will say, well tell me about the 25 grand first. I can see that working, fabulous.
– It works very very well, because when you get on the phone and they’re like, oh I really wanted your Done for You service, I’m like all right awesome, that’s my $25 to $50000 offer. And yeah it’s done for you, and it comes with all these guarantees, or blah blah blah blah blah.
– Oh but I cannot afford it right now, great, no problem
– Perfect, I have something equally as valuable.
– It’s like I gave you all of my descripts and my templates and my frameworks right? And I even give you some coaching, so if you can’t afford it, that’s totally fine, that’s why we put this other option for you.
– So then you’ll get to the point where then you can upgrade and you can afford the other Done for You, you can have more time back. Bingo, love it, absolutely love it. I think that you’ve solved the big question that a lot of people use in application, kind of selling style the application to calls they have. Now I’m aware of the time, so I want to move into the lifting the veil section and then we’re going to wrap up. Now what is something that you use in your business, in your life, that makes difference for you, personally, and that everyone else needs to know? Lift the veil.
– So one of the books that I recently just finished is a monstrosity of a book. It’s called Principles by Ray Dalio, so I got it right here if anyone’s watching the video on this. So as we go through, I’m a direct response marketer at heart, so I look at like, everything’s very measurable and I’m looking for immediate responses right? But as we evolve and I start working with bigger businesses, I start learning more of the importance with branding and kind of developing that fine line between direct response and brand awareness marketing, ’cause they are two very different ends of the spectrum , right? So I’m trying to figure out how to meet in the middle. When I read Principals by Ray Dalio, it was like the ultimate guiding light. Branding is all about, you have these rules, these principals that you kind of follow and that determines everything that you do. All those decisions that you make are being led by these set of rules. And so, as I read Principals by Ray Dalio, he talks about building very large companies and getting everybody on the same team. It reminds me of like this journey that I’m on right now where I have bigger and bigger clients who want to leverage webinars but they’re not sold on going full blown direct response, right? And so now I need to marry, and develop a little bit more brand awareness marketing and try and meet them in the middle. I mean I’m working on two clients specifically who are like, they can’t go all the way direct response, they would rather spend much more money, and give a tonne of free content and free value and just hope they sell people down the road. And I’m like, oh my god that is so against what I stand for. But I’m trying to meet them in the middle. But anyway, to come back to my secret weapon, Principals has allowed me to kind of understand that a little more and figure out how to apply, it’s not a marketing book, but it allows you to understand the high level concepts of leading your life by principals, leading your business by principals because those ultimately make all of your decisions for you, so that’s a great one.
– You know, I’ve heard so many times talk about this book. I’m going to buy it, you convinced me. ‘Cause it just came popping up, and popping up and popping up, and you know what, I say okay, I got enough messages, I’m going to get the book. So thank you very much, and we’re going to put the book as well in the show notes, so you can click and get Principals by Ray Dalio. Which is the awesome resource that Joel just shared. Now Joel, it’s been a brilliant interview, everyone who uses webinars or is thinking about using webinars, I’m sure they will find it very useful. And what if they want to know about, how they can work with you or get into your world? What’s the next step?
– Yeah, the best way is to head over to, so I have something called The Webinar Vault, which is basically my brain completely dissected. Every month I’m looking at 10 to 15 webinars, and I’m studying them, I’m critiquing them. And so what I’ve done, is inside The Webinar Vault, I upload the best of the best webinars that I’ve been researching. I critique them, I show what the psychology is, I explain the psychology. I am all about framework, not about scripts. And so I dissect it, so it’s into frameworks that can be applicable for anyone in their business. So have eight or nine that are uploaded in the vault as I’m recording this, and I also have software that people can use to build their own sales presentations, their own sales webinars in under 30 minutes. It is not a a scripting tool, it is a framework tool but it’s very very powerful. So you can check that out with a seven day free tri, sorry my son just hoped in here.
– Say hi.
– Yeah, there’s a seven day free trial sold with webinars.com, you can check it out there. Or connect with me at thewebinaragency.com and you can also listen to my podcast at Sold With Webinars and I have a second podcast for experts called Experts Unleashed, so lot’s of ways that you can connect with me and follow my stuff.
– Brilliant, you will find all the links in the show now, so make sure that you check as well Sold With Webinars so that you can listen to the interview that we did, we talked about how to using webinars and seminars combined. I’m sure you will find it very interesting if you haven’t already listened to it from the emails and social media posts that I’ve already put out about the episode. Joel, thank you very much, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show, thanks a lot.
– Simone, thank you so much man, I had a blast, it was an excellent conversation.
– It was indeed and ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for listening, make sure you subscribe right now, if you haven’t subscribed yet, what are you waiting for? And also leave us a review, five star of course, letting us know what did you enjoy the most about this episode with Joel. I’ll see you next time and always remember, that together we grow exponentially.