Welcome to episode #173 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview our GTeX Lifetime Member Jim J. Doyle
In this live coaching session, we talk about
- How to sell at external events
- How to keep on track when selling
- How to combine powerpoints and flipcharts for maximum audience engagement
Connect withJim J. Doyle
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– Hello ladies and gentleman. Welcome to a special episode of Explode Your Expert Business Show and today, I’m joined by the one and only Jim Doyle. How you doing Jim?
– Very well, Simone. Thank you for this interview. I’m really looking forward to it, and I have no idea what’s coming next.
– It’s gonna be fantastic in particular because we’re going to help you with your selling from the stage. Jim, how about introducing yourself for 30 seconds and letting us know what it is that you want specifically help with.
– I’m Jim J. Doyle, and what I do is help business leaders and entrepreneurs get rid of their limiting beliefs so they can be really much more successful and eliminate all kinds of limiting beliefs around money and wealth and performance and especially being confident on video.
– Fantastic, and how can I help you today?
– What I’d like to do is be very clear. I’m a bit of a shiny object person, as we’ve spoken about before.
– And what I’d like is some help on if you like techniques and visualisation in terms of preparation before my sales pitch and during it because I’m a very visual person of maintaining the right mindset and connection to the audience to maximise their positive buying response.
– That’s brilliant. So we’re going to look at two things. We’re going to look at first of all, what can you do preparing yourself as a preparation during your talk and before your talk and then how do you keep focus during the talk because I find this coming up very, very often. When you are so involved in the conversation as a presenter and hopefully you’re really passionate about what you’re talking about like Jim is, and then it’s easy to get distracted or to go off track and that can take away from the conversions in the room because suddenly, you’ve run out of time or you start talking about a topic which is not related to what the pitch is going to be about, which means that now the direction of the audience is in a complete different direction and so there is disconnect now between what you’re talking about and the pitch. So we’re going to look at how to manage both. Let’s start from the preparation. When you are preparing a presentation and when you are working on the presentation for an event or a speaking engagement that you have, what is the work that you do upfront before the presentation to ensure that you have the maximum amount of sales?
– Well to be crystal clear on what it is I’m actually selling and what my offer is and what I normally do being of the mindset approach generally is what I do is being very sure that I am really comfortable with the offer I’m making. So that’s really key to what I do. I haven’t done that many sales from the stage, but what I normally do is make sure that I’m very comfortable with that because if I’m not, my audience isn’t going to buy.
– Absolutely, and how much time, and I want you to be very honest with me, how much time do you spend rehearsing the pitch or the call to action and the close before an event, before a speaking engagement? – Well in preparation leading up to it, normally, in the past, I have not done near enough because I have a tendency to wing it. These days, what I tend to do is achieve not just aim to achieve, two hours practicing and not all in one go but lots of different sessions in between, which basically means good planning upfront, not just trying to squeeze it in between overrunning jobs.
– And do you find that when you’re practicing how is your focus and attention when you’re practicing? Do you find that you can be pulled in different directions and one moment the pitch says one thing and the next rehearsal says a completely different thing or do you find that you can keep the focus and the concentration while you are practicing?
– I get the focus and the concentration pretty good after about six attempts. I think it’s a function of being human, not just being Jim, but we go all over the place, especially when you’re practicing by yourself. If you’re practicing with a colleague in person rather than just on camera, it’s a lot easier to keep focused, I find anyway.
– That’s brilliant. So in terms of what you’re doing, I don’t see anything that you can do more in the preparation. It’s being incredibly clear about what you’re selling, knowing the structure of the pitch, knowing the structure of the call to action, and as you suggested working with a partner helps massively because also they can give you feedback. So is there anything that you think you could be doing more in the preparation to help you to be more focused on the event?
– Well, certainly in terms of the preparation is to test it with a couple of people, test it with a few other colleagues of the same or preferably greater experience, bounce it around in say GTeX group or something like that, but ideally with a few people whose input feels valued and considered and that they actually considered before they give you an answer rather than just a quick answer to keep you happy.
– Okay, perfect. That’s something definitely that I would recommend you to do, and when you’re practicing, just a quick question, when you’re practicing by yourself, do you also practice with your PowerPoints?
– Yes, I do, and I also make sure I get it on video as well because that way I can see what I’m doing, which might be like, hmm, yeah, ’cause I analyze people on video. So I can look at myself and go, that’s rubbish, Jim. I need to improve that. So my two hours’ target is barely enough to do that.
– That’s brilliant. So the preparation work is done. So guys, if you’re listening, make sure that you know what you’re talking about, you’re prepared and you rehearse it as many times as possible, in particular with someone else. It will help you massively. So now, let’s look at during the event. What challenges do you face in terms of keeping focus during the event? Can you give me an example of a few moments where you kind of lost that focus or lost a grip and that impacted the call to action later?
– Well, as I said, a bit of a shiny object person. Give me a Q & A session and it’s very easy for me to go off on tangents, which is not very good. I do manage to maintain focus reasonably well to a level that I’m fairly happy with but there’s always room for improvement in terms of tightening it up. I don’t want to give a really rigid talk. I want to give something that’s empathic, that resonates, that’s passionate. So I believe what I’m saying. So I’m connected to it. So just I have to be careful, I just literally have to be careful and pay attention to not go out on those tangents.
– Right, so this is something that will help you massively during the Q & A because you’ve seen me speak many times and I love the interaction. I love responding to Q & As like yourself, and I think it’s really important to build the element of interaction in the talk because it builds even more rapport with the audience. Now to keep in managing, my rule of thumb is the question aligned, in tune with what is the main topic and what I’m going to sell later? So I’m looking at the question that came in and I’m saying, if I notice that this is a distraction and it is not conducive to me showing my abilities to deliver my knowledge and is not giving the audience a relevant answer that can be useful to everyone, given the context because what happens when you’re having this Q & A, there are people will come in the room because they will want to know about a specific topic, and then one person will ask a question that will be relevant for everyone and adds to the room and other people will ask questions that are very personal, and somehow it alienates the room because then you have now 90% of the room that cannot relate with that question or it’s completely off topic but it’s very relevant for the person who is asking. So if I spot that that question is not relevant and not in tune with the topic that you’re covering, I would say, great question, let me answer it later when we have finished the presentation because otherwise, we will go off topic.
– I have actually done that with 150 people before and somebody asked a completely off-the-wall question, which was possibly related, well it was out here related. It wasn’t on focus and I just said, “Highly detailed, great question, “but let’s talk about it later.”
– Absolutely, so that’s something that you can keep doing and be even more mindful when you’re doing it, and the other thing that I will recommend is always have a set time for when you’re going to make the pitch, for when you’re going to make the call to action. So for example, I always leave about 10 to 15 minutes if it’s a one-hour talk, about 15 minutes for the call to action, which means that no matter what I’m talking about, no matter what Q & A, I know when someone is giving me the sign that there are 20 minutes left, I know that it’s time for me to wrap up and to start selling. It’s really important in that case that you communicate with someone in the room that can give you a sign when there are 20 minutes left or depending on how long you need for the pitch. If it’s a call to action, typical consultation, does it require 15 minutes? If you’re selling a product, yes, you will require 15 to 20 minutes, but then, by having that, you know yourself that now is your time to pitch. So then you can manage your Q & A, you can manage the question, and then you can interrupt in a gentle way, not a brutal way, but you can steer the conversation and say, great question, great Q & A, would love to keep going, but we need to move forward right now and I will answer a lot of your questions later on so make sure you stick around. That’s a great way to handle it.
– There was one question, one thing you said on there, it was being sure that answering the question was relevant to what I was selling later on. – Yeah. – What I was selling. Very subtle point on there because I in the past, I know I’ve interpreted those questions as being relevant to what I’m talking about, but not necessarily the context of what I’m selling ’cause I can deal in materials like that wide but I’m selling something that wide. So the question may be in my mind relevant to what I know. So I kind of go into teaching mode instead of staying like you said, focused on what I’m selling later, so not just the question in the moment. So it’s a good case, that one, of not living in the now but living in the future.
– It’s really interesting because a lot of speakers like myself, like yourself, we know a lot about different topics because we have a passion for learning. So when there is a question that we know the answer and we know that we know the answer, it’s as you said, easy to step into teaching mode and then create an entire new seminar out of that because now it’s an exciting topic to talk about because I’ve been starting that topic for a such a long time and I wanna share it right now, and it’s about is this adding value to the ultimate result, ultimate aim which is in making conversions?
– And then if the answer is yes, great, that’s a great question, or then you can as well, because some questions might be relevant and showcase your knowledge and expertise in that field. So you can give an answer, but a much shorter answer.
– Yes. So then you can manage your time and understand okay, which question is worth spending more time delving deep into with the end in mind that I want to sell this product. So if it is a question is related to that product, let’s say for example, speaking up to camera, just give that as an example and someone asks you a question about energy healing, two things that you can talk about forever.
– And now you can show that and make the connection between energy healing and speaking to camera but then I will make the answer about energy healing much shorter, and then someone asks you a question about speaking to camera, I will then spend more time there because the product which is sold is related to speaking to camera, but now the fact that you integrate your healing when you’re doing your speaking to camera, then you had already a bit of time talking about the healing. So now they can see that you – Join the dots.
– Exactly, exactly, so it’s about prioritising there and having that at the back of your mind. So that’s one thing that you can do. The other part to keep focus is always to have a PowerPoint when you are selling is easier. I know that you had your points at the events that we did with the other lifetime members, you had your PowerPoints, the pitch was very well structured. So you had all of the elements in place and it helps you make sure that you tap into the right points than just suddenly start talking about something else in the crucial moment of the call to action. Is there any other example where you think you could, knowing yourself, where you could go off track or lose a bit of focus other than the ones that you have explored?
– Well, you’ve just mentioned it actually, implied it earlier, which was when at the Purpose to Abundance talk, I had my PowerPoints but I didn’t actually keep to my slides because I was very comfortable talking about what it was on whatever topic I was on at the time to the point where I wasn’t using the PowerPoint following the exact sequence. I was being very dynamic and passionate with the audience to the point where the projector timed out. So that is entirely down to me and to anybody else watching of course just to make sure that if you’ve got PowerPoint and you need to be comfortable with the timing you’re using and stick with it because if you lose the sync between those, then you’ve got a break in continuity, a disconnect from the audience. Yes, you were there, great to come and plug it in, but in a different set of circumstances, that could’ve been much more consequential.
– It could’ve been and this is my recommendation to you knowing your style because if you see awesome representations, I hate PowerPoints personally, and we are on the same page. I hate PowerPoint. I use PowerPoint because they help me sell more effectively. So for me, they are an instrument of sales, but when I deliver the content, I’d rather be more with the audience than following a PowerPoint structure because I know what kind of content I’m going to deliver and I like to be more facilitative in the way I deliver the content. So a recommendation, something that you can do, instead of having all your structured content in the PowerPoint, you can have the beginning at the end, which is when you have the picture about your social proof, testimonial pictures, because they are visual and they are the things that the audience needs to see, and then when you’re going into the content, then you can transition in having way less slides. You can have just one or two slides assigned just to be there on the screen as a holding slide and then transition to a flip chart for visual aids, like you did last time. You worked it out with a flip chart if I remember well.
– Yes, I did, and that’s when the projector timed out.
– Exactly, so now we know that. I will put less slides in the content. You can use the flip chart there, and you have only two or three slides So then when you know and someone makes you the sign that it’s time to wrap up, then you have maybe one or two slides to flip through before you have the slide with the pitch instead of, oh guys, sorry, 15 slides later, now I’m the time on the pitch.
– That’s disastrous. So what I’ve actually done in other presentations is I’ve got a black slide. So when I’m coming up to ad lib and be passionate, or whatever, literally pop over, backslide, blank screen, it’s not somebody, bit of text or a picture and it’s too bright, and then just pop on to the next one when the time is right. So there isn’t an actually critical time to follow all the way through.
– So that’s a great way. That’s an absolutely good way for you to keep yourself on track and to keep yourself focused and going into a bit more We know the power of intentions. So it is for you in particular very powerful to have the intention of keeping focus and you can set the intention before the talk. Say to this talk, I want to be passionate, I want to deliverthe audience, I want to deliver the best I can be, to wow them, to make sure that they want more and I want to be focused.
– And then it’s like, it becomes your personal mantra before every single presentation. – As you can imagine, I have my personal mantras and practises and so on, which I’m quite adept at.
– I know you are, I know you are, that’s why I know you would’ve loved this one, but it’s something I’m doing every time. For example, even apply to other fields. You know I love playing basketball. I play basketball very often. In fact, after this interview, I’m shooting off and every time I have a basketball training or a basketball practise, I will set myself with the intention of focus on something in particular. So one day I would say, today I want to focus on passing and creating plays for other players, which means that I will consciously play less individualistic, not shooting so much and not driving as much, but I take every approach you need to pass the ball and set screens for other players. Another training, I will say to myself, today, I want to focus on my three-point shot, which means every time I have an opportunity, I’m going to shoot no matter what other people say because it’s part of what I know is more relevant for me for that training. So that works as well on a presentation level. So you might have one time for you to say I want to be focused and to have focus as your biggest point of focus. Another one could be, I want to make sure I start my close 20 minutes before or 15 minutes or 20 minutes before the end of the presentation, and no matter what’s gonna happen, I’m gonna stick to it. So you can play and work on building these different skills in this way.
– Focus on building a different muscle in each presentation.
– Exactly, absolutely. – Find the weak ones and then do more of the same.
– Exactly or find the strong ones and focus more on the strong ones. You will choose which one is gonna be more relevant for you. If you have the speaking engagement of your life, focus on the strongest point. That’s not the practise ground. If you have a speech in front of five people, a networking event, awesome, do whatever you want, like this is the time to practise and exercise the other muscle because who cares if you screw up.
– But if it’s 500+, then better use the strong muscles. – Exactly and go in where it’s more comfortable for you rather than go in where it’s a stretch because then you can screw up a big opportunity if you are using that as a training ground. I’ve got time for one more question, Jim. Do you have one more question?
– Any preferred method of actually getting the audience to sign up? Now you’ve spoken before many times about having people to run to the back of the room, but I didn’t naturally get the impression you were really promoting that. We’ve both seen it too many times. So the question is, what is the easiest and preferred from your point of view getting people to sign up? Get a credit card out and go, cha-ching?
– Easiest is the application close. The easiest is by far the application close. It is the easiest to learn, it is the easiest to execute. It’s the one that also gives the highest number of leads from the room because then you will close them in the consultation one to one. The downside of that is that you will have the consultation after the presentation. So life gets in the way, some people will book and then not show up, we know that The easiest is that one, is the application close. It needs to be executed well because you will need to have, for example, if this is your own event or is an external event as well, you will need to have a full application that people are going to fill up. It’s not just name and address and phone number ’cause then you will have a much higher level of understanding of what the people, even from the answer, how long do they write the answers. If someone is just scribbling three words.
– It’s not exactly a commitment.
– It’s not exactly a commitment, but if someone spends time to explain the situation, what they’re going through and why do they need your help, then you know that that person is actually really serious about this. Now it doesn’t mean that the person who put some scribble is not as qualified, but I would then prioritise more the people that have written good information rather than the people that have just put some scribbles that I cannot even read.
– Right, but with that level of commitment for them to fill in the form and give away their life story, then you wouldn’t do that on an evening talk or a lunchtime talk or something like that because they’re not likely to have the time and they’ll have the inclination to sort of run away and catch the train or whatever it is. – That’s a very good point.
– If it’s in a two-day, maybe a one-day but in a two-day or a three-day event, then you’ve got a different
– No, not necessarily, not necessarily. Of course, the more time you have with them the easier it is to create time for this to happen, but you as a speaker, you create the time. So if you have a two-hour presentation in the evening, and you go one hour and a half and you know that it’s gonna take 10 minutes for them to fill up the application form, I account the filling up the application form as a time for the presentation.
– Oh, of course, okay, so yeah, I take your point. So an hour and a half, I would’ve thought is probably pushing it, but it would be my immediate emotional response, but two hours, yeah, okay.
– Even if you have one hour and a half, then you have one hour and a half, then you have the extra 10 minutes to fill up the application form.
– And as you say, once the actual detail, the actual action or attachment of filling in the form and a lot of details rather than just a name and an email address is acommitment.
– Exactly, absolutely, and then if you want to use the get-in-now close, which is the full close with the bonuses with the discount and people buying right now, I found that I love, there are three different ways. One is the rush to the back, which is created by creating a very high level of energy and need and it’s more you step into more the architect of the motivational speaker there and it’s all about getting them to act on some primal instinct, in particular a lot of speakers use that technique, they tap into the primal instinct of survival, and that’s what gets people to run because they trigger so many times the survival mechanism that then they go into the fight-or-flight response, which means then the people run at the back of the room. So that’s the psychology which is needed to create that rush or that kind of feeling. Another one, I’m not judging any techniques here because I think that every speaker will have their own technique and as long as the speakers deliver on what is the word that they promised, I believe that it’s okay. That’s personally what I believe. Before, I was very judgemental. I was like, oh no, why that person is selling in that way? The fact is that even a person who’s selling in that way and the people that buy are actually getting real transformation and they buy something that they need, that’s a strategy.
– That’s fair, it works.
– Right. So if people love that strategy, they will use that. I’m personally not a big fan of it. So I will give sales form to everyone. So the idea is I want to make it as easy as possible for someone to sign. So what’s the easiest way? They don’t even have to stand up. They get their form, they leave it on their table, and they already have the pen. So the only thing they have to do is to fill it up. They don’t even need to stand up. They don’t need to go, just do it right now and stand up. Now that doesn’t create, however, the social proof that the other model of seeing people going to the back even if there is no running but the forms are at the back, that doesn’t create the level of social proof for then other people to stand up, the people that are more followers. Say oh well, all these other people are doing it. What am I doing here?
– Off we go, yeah.
– Off we go, but I personally like the giving, here’s the presentation, here’s the call to action, here’s the bonuses. For the first five people that give me their form back, whatever, this extra bonus. Here are the forms everyone, fill it up. So now you will find that some people will fill up the form really fast. That’s the level of it’s like I want that extra bonus there. So they will fill up and then we number all the forms so they can see, and then we will say, two forms left, one form left just to make people aware.
– Just to crank it, crank them up.
– Crank them up a bit more, but this is much more difficult and requires much more practise and training to execute. So I always recommend at the beginning, up until you do your first hundred events, use the application close, and then once you become complete master in the application close, then move into the other type of close and play around, but you know you kind of have nothing to lose. You know what you’re doing, and you can just be more relaxed and playful rather than think, oh my God, I need to say this now, I need to say this now.
– That’s not gonna work. If you’re in that mode, then it’s not gonna work because you’re not credible. Nobody’s gonna believe you. – And then you lose connection with the audience by thinking about what this next thing you’re gonna say instead of thinking about just being there, being present.
– Exactly, yeah.
– Jim, I think we’re done. So the last question is what was the most valuable thing for you in this actual session that we had?
– I think, actually, the last bit of information you had on there was really valuable, about just literally just use the application. Don’t mess around, don’t try and be too clever, and I think for me it was being able to use the application effectively in a just an evening talk, in an hour and a half or so.
– You did brilliant that night. You did absolutely brilliant.
– I couldn’t believe it, it was amazing.
– Well, that’s 66%? – 66%, yeah. – 66% of the room filling up applications, geez! That’s good results man. – Just got to do it more often with applications.
– Absolutely, absolutely. Now, ladies and gentlemen, if you want now to create incredible presentations to sell like crazy, have great results, you can scroll down, and there is a link, which will send you to our page where you can book a call with our team, and then we can discuss and have chat and see how we can help you become awesome at selling from the stage, creating seminars and webinars that convert like crazy. Jim, thank you very much for being on the call today and I’ll talk to you soon.
– Thank you Simone, it’s been a real pleasure.
– My pleasure, bye.