Welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
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Today I have the pleasure to Interview Colin Symington-Bailey
After dedicating the best part of a quarter-of-a-century to senior management roles within Retail and Hospitality, Colin has personally experienced how stress can be intricately interwoven with our health – be it mental or physical. This was irrevocably reinforced when, just over four years ago, his father – a widely respected and successful General Practitioner – chose to take his own life.
With regards to mental ill health, we can dissect the statistics, but every statistic is a person – a father, a daughter, a son… Colin passionately believes that prevention is better than cure – and to that end, early intervention is crucial…
In this episode, we talk about
- We all have mental health… If you have a brain you have mental health.
- With regards to mental ill health, prevention is better than cure.
- There is no health without mental health.
Connect withColin Symington-Bailey
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– Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert Business Show. Today I’m here with Colin Symington-Bailey. How you doing, Colin?
– Absolutely awesome, thanks Simone. How about yourself?
– Really great, thank you very much, welcome back. You were back here on episode 134. So we were talking about making space in your life, we were talking about productivity, so I really loved our past episodes. So guys, make sure that you go back to episode 134 to check it out, in particular for the concept of work life balance. Now this time is going to be, we’re gonna talk about something a bit different, Colin. We’re going to talk about the concept of mental wealth. Now probably you’ve heard about the concept and I’ve heard about the concept of mental health and when Colin told me no, we’re going to talk about mental wealth I was like oh, okay. You gotta tell me more right now. So I’m curious to explore this conversation with you. For people that don’t know you or haven’t seen your past episode, tell us a bit more about yourself and your background, and what got you here?
– Yeah, absolutely and thank you for having me back, appreciate it. Thanks for having me, really appreciate the opportunity to speak to you and to all our listeners. A bit about my background, I spent the best part of 25 years as a senior manager working in retail and hospitality. You could say I was living the work-life imbalance, and then that’s why I started my programme The Art of Balanced Living, ’cause effectively we try to support other people not to make the same mistakes we did. And after sacrificing 26 consecutive Christmases, enough was enough, and I decided I’ve gotta do something, and you know, be more present with my family. I was aware of the fact I was working a lot, and the money was giving the presents, but not necessarily the presence. So it was about getting that balance back. I then took the route of becoming a coach, again with the support of GTex, getting out there, and supporting people with their work-life balance, as you referenced earlier. Well, I then realised that that’s just one side of the coin. It’s great to talk about stress reduction, it’s great to have more time to spend with your family, but we’ve gotta address the root cause of stress, perhaps, what’s causing the desire to work more. And that might be the stress, the anxiety, the depression, which goes hand in hand with the mental health, or the mental ill health, as a lot of people may see it at the moment, if that helps.
– Yeah, I’m really curious to hear, because of course I’ve observed your journey since you joined GTex, and what made you change, or not change, but make you give more importance to the concept of mental health, because before when we started working together, it was all about work-life balance, but now you went and stepped deeper, and I know you’ve invested in a lot of course and a lot of training for yourself to master this topic. So what was for you the switch? Was like, okay, actually this is more important right now.
– Twofold, one, as I said before, when you’re talking about work-life balance, when you’re talking about confidence, it’s sort of the tip of the iceberg, it’s almost like you’re looking at the symptoms but not necessarily the cause. And with the research that I’ve done that you just touched upon, I’ve realised that it’s better to treat the cause than to treat the symptoms. It’s almost like putting a plaster, or a bandaid for the American viewers, over a gaping wound. You’ve gotta treat the problem. So that was my first sort of shift change in terms of mindset. The other one was more a personal move, and I hope you don’t mind me sharing.
– Yeah, please.
– I don’t say this to seek any sympathy or pity, but my father took his own life about four years ago now, and my youngest daughter, who surprisingly or coincidentally she’s turning 18 in 10 days’ time, she’s attempted suicide twice. So the fact that I’m blessed to be here to share her 18th birthday, is a privilege, and the main reason I explored mental health, or mental health first aid specifically, was to be a better parent, to give her more support, to be able to be someone, that shoulder that she could turn to when she needed that support, which at the time I felt that I wasn’t. So I noticed a definite gap in my capabilities as a parent, and that’s what shifted it a little bit for me. And in doing the course, I have realised that intervention is better, you know, prevention is better than cure. So with mental health first aid, it’s about that early intervention to stop the problem before it becomes something as serious as an attempted suicide, for example. And to put a positive spin on that, my daughter has actually attended one of my courses. She is know a certified mental health first aider. So she’s out there, she’s spreading the message, and it’s probably one of my second proudest moments as well. So there is hope, there’s always hope, and I just want to get the message out to people to realise that you have got someone that you can talk to, there are people, perhaps better equipped to be able to help with your mental health issues, it’s not just about physical health, or when it becomes too much of a crisis, for example.
– Thank you for sharing, Colin. I know is when it’s kinda, I mean I cannot even imagine how it is to live in that situation. But I gotta say, also, good for your daughter, very strong, I mean I’ve seen so many people just giving up. Any particular, you know, for you as a father, seeing, doing whatever, but also putting yourself on the line and say, well I’m not showing up at my best right now for my daughter, and not many people do that. So kudos to you, man.
– Appreciate it, thank you.
– So now we are talking about this issue in entrepreneurship, because I know there are some, I don’t remember, I’ve read also something around mental health in entrepreneurship, and there are actually a lot of entrepreneurs that commit suicide, you know, something happen, they cannot pay their bills, they cannot support their family. Being an entrepreneur is a very lonely journey. A lot of time is a really lonely journey, and that can fuck up your mind, I mean I gotta say this.
– Oh no, I agree.
– Because there are so many pressures that a lot of times we face, and we have, you know, kind of always put a brave face and a bright smile and get out there like nothing happens in our personal or business life. And I’ve seen a lot of people that went and had some serious mental health issues just because of this reason. So let’s address, from your perspective, first of all, why for entrepreneurs, they can be the risk for mental health issues and let’s talk then how can we prevent these things from happening?
– Yeah, definitely, and just to preface that, it’s not a one size fits all approach. So different people will experience different events in different ways, and it’s sort of an NLP presupposition. But I’ll go through perhaps the broadest sort of example, and I’ll give my personal example there as well. As I said, I worked in retail and hospitality for 25 years as a senior manager, and I was severely stressed and depressed, in fact my wife, who was my fiancee at the time, actually said to me, I’m not gonna marry you unless you spend more time with us, which is understandable. So there wasn’t really that much of a choice for me to remove myself from that field. Entrepreneurship seemed to be the best option. So I would argue that it’s almost like jumping out of a frying pan and going into the fire. It’s a totally different kind of pressure, and where you’re in a retail or management environment, you’ve got the support, you’ve got that network, you’ve got the stability, the security of a monthly income, for example. But when you’re responsible for everything that happens, there’s a lot more pressure on you. You are literally your business. So you’ve gotta put on that public face, you’ve gotta put on that persona to encourage people to want to do business with you, whatever that business might be. So inside you might be in a massive state of turmoil. It’s almost like the swan that’s swimming gracefully across the river, but their feet are going like that under the water, but it’s just gliding along. And no one wants to, with the stigma that’s out there, no one wants to accept, or even admit, that perhaps they have a mental health issue. And it might be something just that I’m overworked, I’m overstressed, something simple like not getting enough sleep, which I think, as entrepreneurs, we can all raise our hands to, can have a massive impact on your mental wellbeing. I mean, an example I used I think on our last call was that if you’ve been awake for 18 consecutive hours, and that’s just a one-off, that’s not repeated, your brain is operating on the same level as if you have blood alcohol concentration of 0.05. Now the UK drink driving limit is 0.08. So you’re not operating at a hundred percent, you’re not making the best decisions, you’re not performing at your peak. You start to make mistakes. You make mistakes, you start to beat yourself up, you get more stressed. You get more stressed, you sleep less. It’s that vicious cycle. So it’s important, one, to be mindful of the fact that there is a support network of people out there. And that’s part of the reason why I’m on this call talking about it, is to try and normalise it, to try and make people realise that actually, we all have mental health, we’re just at different stages of that continuum. We have good days, we have bad days. My philosophy is every day’s a great day, but some days are better than others. But when you’re not having such a great day, it’s important to be able to reach out to someone to have that conversation, but when you’re having that conversation, it’s just as important that the person who’s listening is actually listening and supporting you. A statistic that comes out with the youth course is that if someone at school were to talk to their peer group, seven out of 10 of their peer group would see that as being negative with regards to having a mental health concern. So I think that stigma goes through with life. So we’re embarrassed, we’re ashamed, we’re wary of the stigma, we don’t want that diagnosis of I have a mental health issue or a mental health concern. But it doesn’t have to be that. The early intervention, the getting in early, having that conversation can help. But don’t work too hard, you can’t pour from an empty cup. You’ve gotta look after yourself. Take some time to yourself, do more of what you love, with the people that you love to do it with, and don’t burn the candle at both ends, you’ve got to get that balance. That would be my number one tip.
– That’s such a great point, Colin, ’cause from thinking about, I made some serious shifts in my life in the past year because of this reason. Not that I would consider that I had mental health issues, but the stress, the anxiety, and all those kind of things, they were happening, even if I wasn’t aware of it. And I think this is sometimes one of the biggest problems. We are not even aware that those things are playing, and I have to thank my wife that actually, she realised, like, I think you need to sleep right now, you’re too stressed, or she reminds me, hey, you’ve been working too hard, I mean, you slept four hours for the past three days in a row. And so since I made a conscious effort to actually look after myself better, in particular, in the most important thing, which was the sleep for me. And I always sort of remember like, before going to sleep, I always have this thing, it’s like oh you gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this, it’s like, oh shut up. And so I kind of now realise the good balance between what I can control and what I cannot control.
– I think that’s a great point as well.
– Because, let’s talk about this part, because I think it’s very relevant for entrepreneurs. I mean, I work for myself, I’m a bit of a control freak, I love that everything needs to go as I want.
– And you know, but when you’re running a business at the same time, you are so invested in your time, your energy and what it means to you that you have very high expectations for yourself and for the people around you. So how can we manage this better, instead of letting this basically eat us?
– I mean, the key is knowing when to let go. I think you raised a very, very valid point there about knowing what you can control and what you can’t control, and not being too stressed out about what you can’t control, because it doesn’t actually serve you, it doesn’t serve any purpose. But I think the key thing, and perhaps my biggest learning that I’ve had from GTex experience, so to speak, over my journey so far, is outsourcing, is delegating some of your responsibilities to other people. I mean, I’m not gonna go into too much detail, but we talk about the 10-pound hours, 100-pound hours, 1000-pound hours, for example. How many jobs, menial tasks for example, are you physically taking on board that somebody else could be doing for you? And in doing that, you’re sort of giving yourself more time to focus on the important bits. There’s the Pareto principle in terms of 205 of you work results in 80% of your return. So are we focusing on the 80% that’s returning 20%, or are we looking at it as the 20% that’s gonna give us the 80%? So control what you can control, manage what you can manage, but outsource. Delegate where possible, and actually when we’re first starting out, I think that’s the biggest problem, ’cause we take everything on, we do it all ourselves, whether it’s quality control, or whether it’s because we can’t afford to pay somebody else, and I think we just, the workload, a lot of people end up doing more hours as an entrepreneur than in the job that they left because they were working too much, and I think that’s a sad fact, yeah.
– Yeah, way more! Way more, I was like, last time I had a 40-hour week I don’t even remember.
– What’s one of them?
– That was my holiday week, I mean
– Talk about 40-hour weeks, of course, I did a 36-hour shift once. So yeah, that’s one day.
– That’s one day, one day you’ve done it all.
– One shift.
– In the catering industry that happens, yeah, I’ve done a few of these myself. I remember those times. So now the thing I want to address right now is more around asking for help. ‘Cause I mentioned at the beginning, it’s quite difficult, or personally, I found it pretty difficult to get out there and even ask for help. I had eating-related issues, I went through anorexia, bulimia, overeating, which are mental illnesses, which are mental health illnesses. And for me what was incredibly difficult, and what I find that is very difficult for a lot of people, is to ask and reach out for help. So what can we do, or what is available that we don’t know?
– I think the key to that is that we don’t know what we don’t know until we know that we don’t know it, if that makes sense.
– And with mental ill health, there still exists a massive stigma around it, so much so that the term for example, committing suicide relates back to the time when suicide was a crime. You’re committing a crime, in terms of committing suicide for example. And we still use that language, we still use that terminology, we still have that taboo that exists around mental ill health. But I think the tide is changing, it is shifting, we’re having people like Prince William, Prince Harry, openly talking about it. Lady Gaga’s been quite vocal, I mean it’s been a big month for her, and she’s obviously putting the word out there as well. The Health and Safety Executive have reworded their guidance with regards to mental wellbeing in the workplace, not just physical health. So I think the key is just to talk more about it, and that’s why the tide is shifting, people like Martin Fry, a lot of celebrities are coming out and talking about it, it’s being embraced a lot more openly. And it’s only through talking about it that we raise the awareness, and in raising that awareness, we can banish this stigma through the understanding of mental health and mental ill health, because mental health isn’t negative. We all have mental health, just as we have physical health. So again, through my experience, it’s about that early intervention, about having the courage, and perhaps knowing where to support. There’s loads of websites and apps that you can support for many different things. There’s obviously eating disorder websites, there’s suicide helplines, websites, apps. My mother is experiencing a bit of bereavement at the moment, so there’s websites and support groups that can help with that. But ultimately, the key I believe, is to have somebody, doesn’t have to be a professional, doesn’t have to be an established organisation, but someone that you feel comfortable in talking about it, because in talking about it, it keeps you safe for now, and then we obviously get the ball rolling from that. So just by having those conversations, just by having that trust, that vulnerability, to be able to speak to someone, but also in knowing that the person that you’re speaking with is gonna be vulnerable and trusting enough to be able to share that experience. Because we don’t want to have that stigma that’s associate with a diagnosis, for example. We’d rather just sweep it under the carpet and pretend that everything’s okay, but in sweeping it under the carpet, it just ploughs on–
– It just gets bigger. In fact, this is a personal responsibility that we need to take for our own mental health and wellbeing and I think that, for me, a shift, was a massive shift that I had, it was when I realised that even when I was going through this eating disorders, that there was nothing wrong with me, that didn’t make me a bad person, and in my mind, I was like, oh well, if I cannot control myself, how am I going to be able to help other people? That was the big fight I had, is like, well, but I cannot control myself in terms of what I eat and what I don’t eat, and going to this like, night-long binges. How am I going to be able to show up and be the best for other people, and I remember having that conversation the first time I opened up with my coach at the time, Illa, and she said, you wanna eat, eat. What’s the problem? And I was like, what? what do you mean, it’s like So it’s like, yeah, want to binge, binge, binge as much as you like. And when she said that, that was a shift for me.
– Immediately this whole wall of, oh my god, there is something wrong with me, or I’m a bad person because I cannot control myself, it began to fade away. That allowed me to take also the first step and going to, in this case, Overeaters Anonymous, which is the Alcoholic Anonymous version for overeaters. And then starting my healing process which ten took a good three to four years to complete like, almost like get rid of it, and now I don’t even have it anymore. But it’s been realising that there is nothing wrong with me, and there is nothing wrong in asking for help.
– I think the key is to normalise it, is that there are many people with mental ill health. I’m not one for statistics, I believe that every statistic is a person. So, statistics are great to reinforce arguments or perhaps to put a point across, but the statistic exists that one in six people in the UK will experience a mental health disorder. One in 6.7 people in the workplace, and one in four people will experience a mental health concern at any point in their lives. So the statistics, if you’re one in four, it’s a lot more common than perhaps you might have though about. But I think you’ve touched on it there, and thank you for sharing, it’s a great example, is in taking that first step, in reaching out, and yours was a conversation, and there’s no right or wrong answers. It’s just knowing that it’s normal, it’s acceptable, it’s okay, that there’s always hope, and I like that in terms of hope, there’s an acronym that I use in terms of hold on, pain ends. There’s always hope. And the more you can hold on, the closer you are to the solution you want. It’s what Lao Tzu said in terms of that journey begins with a single step. Soon as you take that single step, you’re on that journey to recovery. And again, you’ve evidence that, and I think the key is having the confidence, having the courage to be able to be vulnerable enough to share your deepest darkest, perhaps an experience that you feel shameful or guilty about with somebody else, and in owning it and moving forward with it. So it’s a great point, thank you for sharing.
– You’re welcome, Colin. It is something that I think became also core after experience that I had in the way we set up GTex, because we wanted GTex to be the place where you can be yourself and talk amongst peers without any judgement , and I feel we have achieved it.
– There is a lot of conversation, actually within the community. They are more personal than business-related
– It’s a family, not a community.
– Exactly. And so, for anyone who is there or there’s an entrepreneur, whether you join GTex or not, remember that if you do things by yourself there is such an amount of pressure and demand and expectations from you, by yourself, that you give to yourself, that you give to your family. So take that time to connect to the community, connect with like-minded people, because that’s where you can let the steam go a bit.
– And that’s a great point as well. It’s one of the keys in terms of recovering with mental health, in terms of having that support, having that area, that environment, in which you feel supported and that you have that camaraderie and that network. So it’s not just the social support, it’s also that business support, knowing that you can turn to someone else who perhaps has already done it. This week’s a great week for authors. Suzanne’s a number one on quite a few international bestselling charts on Amazon, so congratulations Suzanne if you’re watching.
– But there’s authors helping authors, there’s public speakers helping speakers, there’s people who’ve been on TED talks helping other people to give TED talks. Whatever it is that you’re looking for, there’s an expert who’s done it, and in terms of helping you on the journey, they’ve been there and done it, so it’s great to benefit from their experience as well.
– Absolutely. So talking your experience with GTex, what did you got out the most, how did GTex help you the most in your journey?
– The best thing for me was about that support, having that network. Fairly new to the whole entrepreneur game, if you want to call it that. When I joined GTex, and I was overwhelmed. There were so many different stimuli bombarding me with what I thought I needed to do from day one. As a coach, you know, you’ve got the expectation or perception that you need to be public speaking, you need to have a book out, you need to have a blog, a website, and everything just comes at you from all angles and it’s overwhelming, and it’s about having a clear strategy and a clear system, but also having the knowledge, the expertise of other people within the community who can help you on that journey. And I think the key is, and this is the same for life as well, is that wherever you are on your journey, there’s always somebody else on the same journey but at a different level. So even though I may not have been that great at public speaking, for example, I’ve been able to support other people in terms of writing books. So we can all support each other in different ways, and in having that community and having that readily available, and willing network, not only does it give you that clarity in terms of what to focus on, and where and when, but it gives you the systems and the strategies to put them into place. And it’s very experiential, all the learnings, all the courses we go on, you get it done in the room. So it’s not a case of, it’s an example I use, between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is knowing that tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. If you go to a GTex course, you can learn all about tomatoes, but we’re making that fruit salad, and that’s what it’s all about, getting your hands in and getting dirty and that’s what it’s all about.
– I’m gonna use this in the market, I’ll quote you, I’ll quote you on this. I’ve got this in the next marketing machine and it’s coming out for our next event. Oh my God, this is awesome, love it. Right, thanks for sharing, Colin, really appreciate it. So guys, make sure that if you want to know how can you become a member, apply for our programmes, there is a link below in the show notes, and you can book a call with our team, and then they can give you more information about what is the best way in which we can help you out. Now Colin, it’s time to lift the veil, it’s time to lift the veil. So this is the part of the show where we ask our guest to share an app, a tool, a book, or something that they’ve been using that is changing your life or your business, and makes it better, makes it easier. What is that for you?
– The first thing I would say, particularly in terms of business and entrepreneurship, perhaps sometimes we feel a little bit of procrastination and we can always find alternative things to do with our time, which might not necessarily be serving us. So the best tool, to get back to GTex, would be the Expert Canvas, in terms of having the plan, having the map, and knowing what you need to do and when you need to do it, and ultimately who’s gonna do it as well, so that you’re not taking on too much workload for yourself. In terms of an app, something I would seriously recommend, particularly in this modern day and age of social media, is download an app on your phone that tells you how much time you’re spending on social media. Because I don’t think anybody realises just how much time they spend browsing Facebook or Instagram or whatever your preferred account might be, when you could be doing something more constructive. And there’s nothing worse than getting to the end of the day and thinking, I’ve just spent eight hours on, maybe Netflix, that’s not a social media account, but I’ve been bingeing on Netflix but I haven’t done my workload. And then you start to beat yourself up and that doesn’t have a great bearing on your mental health either. So my best tip would be to identify what you plan to achieve, and give yourself a definite timescale for doing it, but have an app or something on your phone that you’re mindful and it actually shows you fact, how much time you’re wasting, rather than investing in your business. And that way you’re gonna be more productive with momentum and you’ll get stuff done.
– Absolutely love it. There are a lot of apps
– Many out there.
– There are, so if you can find any, they are almost all the same in the app store. If you are iOS, it does it, I think the newest version, the newest update on Apple, they actually have that feature inbuilt where you can see how much time, and also put a time blocker on the different social media. So for example, you say I don’t want to spend more than an hour a day on Facebook. The moment you spend more than an hour a day, it will block the use of the app.
– On our mental health first aid instructor training there was actually a delegate, one of the instructors in training, she was spending six hours a day on her phone, on Facebook, on social media. Just on Facebook, six hours a day. Now if you’re sleeping for eight hours a day, there’s not a lot of time left–
– Yeah, exactly
– Yeah, that’s where you’re burning the candle at both ends again. So be more productive, and allocate time to do what’s important to you, but also spend some time doing what you enjoy doing so that you can recharge your batteries. I think that’s important too.
– Thanks for sharing, Colin, and also guys for the Business Canvas, we had training on the past episodes of the podcast. So if you go back and do the search bar, Expert Business Canvas, actually no, Your Road to Business Success, check Your Road to Business Success, there is a training on the canvas, which is what Colin mentioned, and if you need any help in implementing it, then book the call and we’ll help you out. Right, Colin, now this has been an incredible interview. Absolutely love it, because in a lot of time here we talked about business, talked about strategies, but all of these don’t matter if we don’t function well, and that’s what I really love about our conversation, in particular today. Not many people openly talk about these topics, and I think it’s more fortunately it’s getting more and more out there, it’s getting more and more common. So I love what you’re doing, keep spreading the word, keep spreading the message. In terms of people reaching out to you, if people want your help and they need help in their business, the help in balancing their life more, because they see that they have problems here now and then. Where are the best ways they can find you or do you resources that they can download?
– Yeah the best, depends on what it is that you’re looking for. As I said at the outset, I look at our mental wealth from the two different aspects. So if you’re looking for the work life balance in terms of management and prioritisation, stress reduction, confidence, and I also touch on things like diet, because that’s just as important, if we’re working so hard, and only eating ready meals or drinking coffee and Red Bull, then again that’s not gonna do us any favours. So I’ve got a six-week programme which I call START. There’s an acronym in there, but you can find that through my website, cs-bcoaching.com. But if it’s about the mental health concerns, then you can find me on mentalhealthsolutions.org.uk. Also on LinkedIn and Facebook under Colin Symington-Bailey as well. So you can find me through that. But yeah, reach out, let’s have a conversation because that’s all it takes, let’s take that first step.
– We’ll have all the links here in the show notes, and make sure you connect with Colin, and maybe it’s not yourself, maybe you know someone that need that kind of help. Then you know who to contact, you know who to connect with. Colin, thanks again, it’s been a pleasure having you here on the show.
– Been a pleasure again. Thanks for having me again. It’s been brilliant, as always, thank you.
– Fantastic. Guys, thank you very much for listening or watching. Please subscribe to this show, make sure you subscribe right now so you don’t miss any other fantastic episode. Share this episode with the people that you know that can find it beneficial, that can find it useful. I’m sure that you will know someone who needs to hear this message right now. So please give them the gift to share this episode with them. And also leave us a review. We love to hear your thoughts, your opinions on the different topics, on what did you enjoy the most about Colin’s interview. So get on iTunes and leave us a review and then if you send me also screenshot of a review you get some really nice cool gifts and bonus resources. So I’m looking forward to receiving your reviews as well. Thank you very much, and always remember that together, we grow exponentially. Ciao.