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Today I have the pleasure to Interview Suze Maclaine Pont
Suze is a coach on Financial Harmony and I help entrepreneurs quit the hustle and embrace a life full of harmony and balance.
She started her career as a naval architect and pretty early on, she realized that she was naturally good at managing big projects and creating a context where people could work together, while using their talents and feeling purposeful. Feeling that she had found her mission, and was inspired to start her first business.
Whereas a lot of people around her complained about business being hard, for her it just came easy; her company was blooming,She was able to take 4-5 months off a year and she was making a lot of money. To have her own business, also meant she could learn about the fields that interested her the most, starting from business and management to NLP, trauma therapy and transactional analysis, so that she could shape herself into whatever her heart wished.
In this episode, we talk about:
- The 6 stages of development and how these play out in character
- The strengths side of these patterns
- How these patterns play out in money and business
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– Hello, and welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert Biz Show today. I’m here with the one and only Susan Maclaine Pont. And we are talking. Hey Suze. We are talking today about money, personalities. Now, I’ve taken a lot of different personality test. I think they’re brilliant to give an idea of where you thrive and where are your past improvements, say what you need to have around you to perform best. So really like them and I never took one around money and you come up with this incredible concept about the six money personalities which we are going to talk about in a moment and see what this different personalities are. But before we get started, what got you into the creation of this work and working with money and working with personalities?
– Well, actually what got me into this is that I got stuck with money a few years ago myself pretty badly. Originally, I’m a ship builder and I was an engineer and I was working in huge, large scale innovation projects as a independent consultant. And I set up my business and somehow in the first five years of my business, I quadrupled my revenue and I was playing around and I was at sea four months of the year and I thought all this crap around business being so hard, I don’t get it. It’s easy, that was my assumption until I got pregnant and that was quite unexpected. I thought I was infertile so all of a sudden, I appeared not to be which was good news but then the father of my child left me eight weeks into that pregnancy. So all of a sudden, I was a single mom, business owner and I did not want my child to have more than three days daycare a week. And then I was confronted with that, the way my business was set up required me to be present 16 hours a day, seven days a week, three months in a row and then I had two months free, and that does not work with a baby. So all of sudden, the way my business was set up allowed me a lot of freedom on my own but it didn’t anymore. And then everyone around me said, well, you know just find a job. Just comprise for a little while. It’s only for a few years and I thought, well, it’s 18 years. It’s not a few years. It’s 18 years and I was not prepared to make that compromise. And I did not have any answers but I knew one thing and that was that this was not how the universe planned this for me. I thought there has to be a different way. There’s just something I am not able to see right now. There is some thing here that I am not seeing straight, so I compromised a lot of for the first few years. When Benjamin was eight weeks old, I was already working 40 hours a week again. And he was crying five hours a day, and it was a hell of a time. And I thought, the minute I get how this actually works, I’m gonna teach everybody. So it took me about six years to really find out what was going on. In those six years, I racked up 50,000 euros in debt, and nobody knew about that. I was really ashamed about it. I did not even tell my husband. I found Jakko, my husband. Well, you know in the beginning of Benjamin’s life. So I was so happy that he joined us and that he took care of my son and of me that all of a sudden, I did not want to tell him about my faults, about my failures. So I had a huge amount of debt and he didn’t know about it util the bank called us that they were going to sell the house. And that was something that I had to tell him of course, and we did not end up selling it but I thought there is something wrong with me. It’s not something wrong with my business because I was a breadwinner. I was doing actually a pretty good job revenue-wise and I understood that somehow, there has to be something wrong with me which was actually good news. So I thought if making money is not that difficult but somehow I end up in this downward spiral then all of sudden then what is wrong with me? Because if it’s something wrong with me, I probably could fix it too. And that is where I started, I was already interested in and studying everything I could about people and about psychological imprints that we have and I’m also a trauma therapist, and that is why I thought so what wounds do we have that we have programmed in our system really early on in life? Somewhere between being a baby and you’re seven, that just keep on running until you have them consciously. That is where I thought if we can, I think I can do this around relationships, around everything but I thought what’s the most beautiful painful thing. All my life, money was the most painful thing so let’s dive into the real pain. Because money can feel like, yeah but that just happens. I have no control over it. You can feel really powerless over money or we can really feel especially business owners. We can feel like but I’m good enough. And you are, you are good enough. There’s just some programme in you that’s running in the back that you’re not aware of.
– And so now you managed then from that moment to go that free, turn your life around and turn your business completely around. And so that where we comes in with the money personalities. So what I would love though to ask you is what are these different money personalities? If you can, walk through them one-by-one and give me, ’cause I’ve seen your reports. And of course, in this interview, you can give a 30 page report for every–
– Not gonna happen.
– Nah, that’s gonna happen on this interview, but guys, there is a link in the show notes. So then at any point you can the money personality quiz. Just scroll down or check the post on Facebook. There is the link so then you can check it out and take your quiz, to see what your money personality is. Get it, fantastic 30 page report. I got it too, it’s a solid work. Terrifying glee, I don’t know say, accurate. So, let’s start with the different categories and some qualities about them.
– Yeah, so basically it’s six types and what I did is I went through the stages of early childhood. So when a baby comes into the world and what developmental stages does he go through, and what can go wrong in those stage. And that is where the types come from. And of course, all these developmental stages something goes wrong. We’re more likely than not you’re probably wounded in two or three rather than just one. But in our childhood, things went wrong. Just because our parents are not perfect and they shouldn’t be because we need parents who screw certain things up otherwise, we don’t learn anything. So certain things have to go wrong in order for us to learn but if they go too wrong or there are certain things that really damage you in a certain way, then you can really get stuck in a certain area. So, there is basically six developmental stages, and the first one is coming even actually just living in your body, so once you, right after birth, what happens is the child all of a sudden has to be on its own, and it has to be on this earth, and it comes to this planet. So the soul has to come from up wherever into a human body and if for some reason or other, the child is left alone too much and it can have so many reasons. Maybe your mom got sick. Maybe there were really severe issues in our life, or maybe she was dealing with stuff that she couldn’t deal with, or maybe she was in huge trauma. It doesn’t even have to be anybody’s fault or maybe you are actually saved in one of those, I don’t know the English word, . Is that an English word? Some kids, right after birth they’re taken away from their mom and actually their life is saved but the baby–
– Like putting it in an incubator.
– [Suze] An incubator, that’s the word.
– That’s the one.
– Yeah, exactly and those things actually are lifesavers. So, I’m not even saying that anybody did anything wrong on purpose. It’s just that a child needs its mother close to it and if it didn’t have that well enough then you develop what I call the rabbit personality, and the rabbit is a bit afraid, anxious, doesn’t really wanna be touched. It’s jumpy and up there still really connected with something way bigger than life. But afraid to make a connection and afraid that if it will make a connection, it will die. And rabbits are usually very spiritual. They have a really strong connection with a huge wisdom. They oversee things but they have a hard time connecting with people, they have a hard time, actually bringing their gift into the world. So when it comes to money, these are typically the people who say, let’s just get rid of the whole system. Money is the root of all evil. Let’s just not do that. Let’s just stay up here and dream and think about things and they have a really huge sense of creativity of wisdom except we’re not getting it. They’re really, really known for being frugal. For not needing anything, for not taking up space. For not living on this planet, and there’s something good about it, and they have a lot of things that we should be getting but if they don’t want to get their hands dirty. Or how do you say that? To actually put the game here.
– There is nothing we can do.
– No, exactly. And rabbits usually don’t even want to think about money. If a rabbit takes this quiz, I applaud you because that means that you’re actually aware of that there are something you want to change. And life seems harsh for them so that’s the rabbit. Then, if that stage of development goes well then what happens is that the child starts to fulfil its needs, right? So the first few months after birth, it knows, okay, I’m safe. I can be here. It’s okay to actually live and breathe. And then it comes into a place where it feels its body, and it starts to feel needs. Needs like being fed. Needs like being cuddled and warmth and physical proximity. Then, this is a really, really difficult area because if those needs are not met, the child will feel scarcity. So then we developed the dog personality. And the dogs, if you look at it money-wise, these are typical people who take care of other people and they’re really sensitive to people’s needs. And they’re really sensitive to giving, giving, giving except they want something back. So there is, they don’t know how to ask for help. They just give everything but it’s from a place of scarcity. So when it comes to money, they spend it, they spend it, they spend it but like hey, I can spend so you see there’s enough. Except if you always spend it then there is never enough.
– There is never enough.
– So there is this huge gap inside them of never-enoughness. Somehow, I can just never work it out and whatever I do it’s never enough. It also feels that whatever they get from other people or get back from other people, it’s never enough. And they can be resentful, they don’t feel like there is ever enough. You get what I mean?
– Yeah absolutely, I’m thinking about this kind of people that ’cause when you’re going through this journey and through the different personalities I’m thinking about my own personal journey with money. And I started when I was 22 as an activist and I was one of the people setting up the tents in front of St. Paul Cathedral for Occupy Movement. So, I was there protesting against the financial system. This all needs to collapse, this is–.
– [Suze] You know about it.
– I saw, I was like yeah pure robbery there.
– [Suze] Yes, absolutely.
– And then I’m thinking about the dog personality. I’m thinking the moments where is was spending or even like those people that they do, do, do but they always expect something back.
– [Suze] Exactly, never pleased.
– And they don’t communicate and is not clear that they were expecting something back.
– Its like I didn’t know you were expecting something back, why you’re getting angry with me. You gave me all this and more and more and more.
– So I can definitely relate with that. So then we have the third type. What’s the third type?
– The third type is the tiger or the cat.
– [Simone] The tiger or the cat.
– And that is right after you know that your needs are met and you know there is enough, a child starts to figure out that they’re independent. That they are not the same person as their mom or their dad and that they have two feet and that they can actually walk on them. So they start to slowly experiment with being apart and being independent from their mom but they also really need approval. And somehow, they have this I’m independent, I can do everything but then when your parents are like, oh, you’re independent, right? Now, well just go then. So they’re pushed out where they really did need to be the small person as well. So, they have this push, pull mechanism. Kind of like, I can do everything by myself because that’s somehow they feel like I’m better off alone. But they also really want to belong to a group. But when they’re in a group, they blend in and view everybody, view everyone and they feel their own self anymore. So it’s either they’re in the group and they don’t know who they are or they’re outside of the group and they don’t make a connection. So they can look really independent and they can look like they have everything together, and people wonder well, you can do everything by yourself. You don’t need me. And then they don’t really know how to really connect to a group. Do you get what I mean?
– I totally get what you mean. And so how does this relate with money?
– They avoid it. Like they avoid a connection and they avoid money. They have huge stacks of unopened mail and bills and they’re like, it will work itself out somehow. I don’t really know how this all works. So somehow they’re like, they avoid everything. They avoid connections and they avoid looking at their money. So they are capable but they don’t really know how to make a connection with their capability and the capacity. So these are the people who shy away from actually making a budget form understanding what their numbers mean. These are people who have late fees. Who, kind of, well, I don’t know if I can afford it but let’s just do it.
– Yeah, let’s just buy it and then something will magically happen that it will sort my financial stuff out. So they are aware that there is a problem but they don’t wanna face it. They are aware about say, this is not right but they’re not doing anything to change it.
– [Suze] Exactly.
– Because if they will have to change it, they would have to face their own independence and they don’t really feel that independence. They have it, they just don’t really feel it, because they feel if I stand on my actual two feet, I’m all alone and nobody will ever help me again.
– [Simone] Yeah.
– So there’s this, but if I really take up that responsibility, I really don’t think I can do it because then nobody will love me anymore. So there is this if I am a little bit helpless and I little bit show that I really don’t have my act together then at least there will be somebody looking up.
– Some people will have compassion or they would get PTMA and then they will be, I can still get the help that I need and so, I don’t have to rely totally on myself.
– Exactly, and asking for help is difficult.
– Oh, interesting, okay, all right. Cats out there, if you’re listening, you know who you are. You’re like yeah, okay. Say okay, okay. And to think that this is already important before we move on with the other archetypes and money personality types. This is important for you to have an awareness about where you are and how you are more naturally as a person. And so, in this way, it’s not about judging yourself or feeling bad about yourself but it’s about understanding better yourself. So then you can get what you want in life. So you can get the money that you want in life. Or you can face those challenges, and feel completely fulfilled and not applying someone else’s paradigm into your own life.
– Exactly, and it’s actually very easy to take care of these patterns. You just need to know you have them.
– Yeah, so we have the rabbit. We have the dog. We have the cat. Who do we have next?
– [Suze] The rooster.
– The rooster. Yes, exactly. A rooster is exactly like the animal. They protect and they’re there for their hen and they take care of everybody except they scare other people off. So they are a little bit intimidating. They’re all about power and control and controlling. Now, that sounds not so nice so some roosters are actually roosters but not wanting to be roosters. So they’re like, no, I’m not intimidating. I don’t manipulate. I don’t scare off people. Because for instance, I have that. My dad was a rooster and he manipulated a lot and he was the really charming guy but somehow you could never get out of his grip. And that was not really nice in my childhood so I’m like, “I’m not like my dad.” right, we all know that, but what we forget is that there is something really, really great about these people. They’re also leaders. They’re not afraid. They take action. They come into a room and they start doing and they take control, and that’s a good thing. And that is what people need specifically in business owners. If you’re a business owner, you need a little bit of that rooster power except the rooster needs to learn that they’re also allowed to be vulnerable and connect with people, and that they’re actually wanted because how this character developed is that in early childhood, there is a certain part when a kid is four years old or something like that. Somewhere between two and four. They’ve learned to speak, to walk to eat, to do everything. And then parents are like, okay, you don’t need me anymore. And for some reason that can have a lot of different reasons. For instance, my dad’s parents. They survived the war and after the war, they lost everything. So they didn’t really know how to rebuild that and they were afraid and they were living in a house with other people when they had huge trauma. So my dad somehow had to take care of things so he had to take care of the finances when he was a kid. That’s not his parent’s fault. It’s just how it happened.
– The situation that was that.
– The situation, yeah. Sometimes, it can be but I wouldn’t blame your parents. It’s just the situation in which you grew up that demanded too much of you at a too early age. If there was one thing my dad wanted, it is that I would be able to face life. He just forgot that I was only a kid. He thought if you’re not able and capable of making a budget when you’re seven-years-old then you failed.
– Like give me a break. I’m seven-years-old. I’ll learn how to make a budget,
– Exactly, so what I really like now is that now he looks at my kids and he says, “Maybe I overact with you. “Maybe you were only a kid.” But we want our kids to succeed in life, or what also could happen is that one of your parents died too early, when you were young. If one of your parents, for instance, I have a client. Her father died when she was five. And she had to be the man of the house. She had to take care of the situation. Her mother wasn’t capable, was mourning all of her life. So those things happen and what happens then is that a kid takes up too big a responsibility at a too early age and doesn’t feel supported in their decisions. So they feel alone and they feel like there’s no room for vulnerability. There’s no room for vulnerability in life at all. If I don’t do it, nobody will be there for me. And what they typically do is take care of everybody around them.
– Yeah, in fact, I can definitely, totally relate with that. I did the quiz and I’m a total rooster. Yes, I’m a total rooster, and living in a house where my father was an alcoholic, and my mom was doing her best to get everything together. Not to make me and my brother feel the problem that was going on. And then father leaving and me becoming the man in the house. I think I was 13, 14 at the time then it had a huge impact and it created in me the personality of, I can handle it myself. I don’t need you. I don’t need you. I got it sorted, don’t worry. You guys live your lives, and I need to keep this in check because it’s always run in that pattern. Even sometimes, I have even in my team and someone does something that I don’t like. My thought immediately is, I don’t need you. I can do this on my own and I’m like, “Okay, chill out. “You really need them. “You cannot do everything on your own.” But that’s the first thought that comes in. It’s almost automatic and as soon as I got the awareness of it then things change for me. But it’s something that I always need to keep in check. So when I was reading my report in the personality quiz, I was like, “Oh yeah, that’s true. “That’s so me.” Okay, so we have the rooster. Then what’s next? What’s the next personality?
– Straight after that is the pig. And the pig–
– Oink, oink. I’m gonna make sounds for everyone, sorry I’m just–
– Gonna make sound effects for everyone so we are the pig, oink, oink.
– I wanna hear your sound.
– I don’t know. Okay, let’s go with the pig, it’s easy.
– Let’s go with the pig first, yeah. So the pig one is the personality type that is also giving, giving, giving. A little bit like the dog except different because the pig doesn’t do it because he doesn’t know how his needs are met but the pig gives and gives and gives because he doesn’t feel worthy. So the pig is a developmental wound that happened in a later stage in your development. And the pig personality has been humiliated for who he is and he just doesn’t feel worthy, he doesn’t feel capable and he feels like he has to take the weight of the world on his shoulders. You can often even see it in their physique. My husband is a pig and he actually walks a little bit like this. They do everything for everybody. They bring the gift of loyalty. They are the most loyal people. They will allow you to beat them and scorn them and humiliate them. They will stay forever. They just do everything because they don’t feel worthy inside. When it comes to money, they’re savers. They will not spend a dime on themselves. It’s almost painful to do something for themselves, to enjoy life just because it needs to be enjoyed. They want to save everybody else. And there’s something beautiful in saving everybody else except that times are changing and I don’t know if it ever was a good idea to save other people by neglecting yourself. But specifically now more than ever, if you want to save the world, you have to show the world what is possible. You cannot just save the other people and say, oh no, no, it’s not about me. I’m just saving you because people want the example more than results.
– And so, what are the main difference between? Was that the dog which was, so the dog that was spending a lot while the pig is a saver. So they’re both people pleaser. Put others before themself but the dog would just spend to have sense of worthiness and is the pig that will not spend, it just save.
– Yeah, so the pig saves and is taking care of others to feel worthy. And the dog is taking care of others and hoping to get his own needs met.
– I see, yeah perfect, thank you.
– So, in a result, it’s different but it’s a really different wound. But in result, it can look a little bit the same.
– Yeah, makes sense. Thank you for clarifying that. Then, the last one, what’s the last one?
– The last one is the dragon.
– [Simone] The dragon.
– The dragon is the last one because actually when a child is fully developed, it goes to school and it starts wanting to test what its learned in school, and it wants to get approval, and it wants to be approved of who he is. And the dragon lives in, you can actually notice dragons in a split second because you can see it. Everything about the dragon looks perfect except they don’t know that. They feel like a failure inside and no matter how many compliments you give them, they always feel like, oh, did I do that right. Oh yeah, yeah but what about this and what about that? They will see every detail that’s still not right and they are so afraid of failing. And they’ve been severely punished for failing. So when it comes to money, they have everything together but they will not spend it if they don’t have a budget around it. Or they didn’t think about what the consequences will be or they always need to have a perfect overview of the situation, which they will never have specifically as a business owner. Sometimes, you make mistakes and dragons are so afraid of mistakes. They just want to understand it upfront. That’s a huge thing and that’s almost impossible.
– How does this relate to money with dragons?
– They’re too careful. They avoid risks. They don’t just avoid risks, they feel anxious about risks that might happen 10 years down the road. They have everything together except when it comes to, well when it comes to enjoying and just not thinking about it for a minute and relaxing and giving up a little bit of control and possibly risking some failure, that’s huge.
– That’s huge for them.
– [Suze] Yes.
– Yeah, okay so to wrap up. We have the rabbit. I don’t know if that’s the sound of a rabbit.
– I think the rabbit is more like. Something like that.
– Oh yeah, like that. Then we got the dog. Then, we got the cat. We got the rooster. What’s next, the pig, oink oink. Then the dragon, So, now that you hear guys my incredibly bad sound effect, that’s why I’m not a voiceover artist. That’s the beginning and the end of a promising career, so make sure you get the quiz. Can you tell a bit more, I gotta wrap now, so can you tell about bit more about how can people find out more, and what you’ve created in the quiz of the six different money personalities?
– Yeah, so the quiz, it’s 14 questions. I think you could do it in three or four minutes, you can think about every question for a day, but I would say do it in three minutes, couples of minutes, take the 14 questions. What you will get is a video. In the video, I will explain your money personality type, and if you leave your email, you will also get a 30 page really intensive report, where I explain everything about the details of these personalities, and the seven-step process of how to break out of your pattern, and that is absolutely something you need. Also, I can talk a lot about the strengths, and what it means in business, and what the world could actually get, if you deal with this wound. Even if you this already, take the quiz, because there’s a lot of information that you probably don’t know yet.
– Yeah, exactly. If it’s one of the first personality test you’re gonna take, it’s gonna be eye-opening. It’s like, oh my God, Roger, you’re reading my mind. If you’ve been already taking a few different personality tests, you will find that there are gonna be some confirmations of what you have explored before about yourself, if you have been around a path of self-discovery, you’ll find that are going to be some confirmation in the way you act. You will as well, that there are additional scenarios, because now, this is linked to your money behaviour, not just to your behaviour with your team, or around yourself and the way you create happiness, if you’re talking about for example, you know, the 16 different personalities, Roger Personality Test. What I loved about this, is just that it’s focus. So, everything in the context of how you use money, and how can you use it better, how can you know yourself better, so then you know what are your strengths and weaknesses in the financial side, so then you don’t fall into that trap, because of your condition you can go in. So, make sure you get the quiz right now. And, what’s the link?
– The link is whatisyourmoneytype.com.
– So, whatisyourmoneytype.com, whatisyourmoneytype.com. You’ll find the link as well in the show notes, you just scroll down and also click the link, it will be there. Suze, it has been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. Mind-blowing interview. Going through the quick myself has been, I already knew what they’re getting into, but I knew more just only mainly about my personality, so it was great to learn about all the other personalities, and how they interact with each other. So, thank you very much, and guys, make sure you take the quiz right now.
– Thank you very much, Simone.