Welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
If you want to build a highly profitable coaching, speaking or training business, download now our EXPERT BIZ CHECKLIST.
The EXPERT BIZ CHECKLIST is the best tool you can use for your expert business where you will take a full assessment of your business and know exactly what to focus on to go to your next level.
Click here to download.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview Ketan Makwan
Ketan Makwana is an experienced entrepreneur, international speaker and investor that has started, scaled and sold multiple ventures. He started Enterprise Lab in 2011 in a bid to bridge the skills gap in enterprise and entrepreneurship; his company now operates across the world procuring projects from 21 countries and delivering services to 150,000 people a year.
In this episode, we talk about:
- How to start a global consulting business
- How to scale a global consulting business
- How to win large contracts when larger and more established companies are bidding for it
Connect with Ketan Makwana
To become a GTeX Member, Apply here:
To receive daily support in your coaching and speaking business, join our private Facebook Group EXPLODE YOUR EXPERT BIZ https://www.facebook.com/groups/explodeyourexpertbiz/
Take a full business assessment for free to have absolute clarity on your business with the EXPERT BIZ CHECKLIST.
Also, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any other episode.
If you want to reach out to me with your questions, you can email me at Simone@gtex.org.uk that comes right to my inbox.
– Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome, welcome, welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert Biz Show. I’m here with my good friend, Ketan Makwana. How you doing, Ketan?
– I’m really good, Simone. How are you? Happy new year.
– Happy new year. We are starting, here is 2020, a new decade. A new decade, wow. So, I just, before we introduce, okay, because I want to just to pre-frame for everyone that doesn’t know this incredible man that I have in front of me today. It was the person that trained me on my very, very first speaking engagement and contract work that I’ve ever had. Was that about eight years ago?
– Oh, yeah, probably longer.
– No, nine years ago, yes.
– Nine years ago, yeah, nine years.
– [Simone] Nine years ago, geez, man, nine years ago. It’s almost a decade.
– [Ketan] So, it’s been a decade.
– [Simone] It’s been a decade, it’s been a decade. So, let’s start with a bit of a ice breaker right now. What were you doing that probably, I don’t know if you’ve done your post online, the review of the decade of the past ten years or not, but what was happening in your life ten years ago at the beginning of the other decade?
– Wow, so 2010, wow, what can I say? Well, I would have sold my first company. I was just starting Enterprise Lab or the basis of Enterprise Lab and we were starting to work within the youth sector, so doing a little work with the National Citizen Service and all those kind of areas. So, ten years ago it was kind of still finding my feet, finding my way knowing what we wanted to do, but definitely still disrupting, disrupting the space for sure. So, another ten years on I guess, wow. It’s still the same thing I guess really, still going out there challenging convention along the way. So, wow, ten years, I can’t believe it.
– Yeah, man, it’s like, well, disruption isn’t new so you can not take it all, you can not take it away from you. So, how, what’s the difference now? Tell us a bit more about what’s the difference, what kind of projects are you involved now and so that people can have a bit of an awareness about what you’re up to.
– Now, my journey’s changed obviously a lot over the last ten years. I mean, starting and selling my first company was an interesting exercise and activity. I don’t really know what I was doing at that time. You create something, you don’t know how far you can take it. Someone else comes in and offers you and you think, okay, fine. You’re gonna go down that line. I think when I started Enterprise Lab things started to change.
– What company was that? What company did you sell?
– I used to have, I lost my job in 2008 due to the recession and I became self-employed, went on and became a contractor providing healthcare consultancy into the healthcare market. I started to bite off more than I can chew as most people do and I found myself stuck where not being able to service contracts that I had pretty much sold. And so, I started an outsourcing agency which I call Smark-It which, where it really worked on sales, marketing and looking at operational success for projects within the healthcare sector. We started to expand that into many different areas and then within six to eight months of starting the business we had about 300 outsource professionals who are self-employed that were taking or tackling projects for us. It was at this point as we started to grow fundamentally I got in touch with an ex-dragon and they were starting their own venture partner programme. I thought they were in resourcing and I was in outsourcing, we thought there was a way of doing some work together. Kind of found out that actually they really appreciate the system that I had designed and they made an offer to take on the system. So, I was kind of like, I was at that stage as a businessman where I didn’t really know where I was going, what I was doing, and I thought to myself maybe that this is the right time to sell this business, primarily because maybe these people can take it forward and do something better with it. For me, it also marked a, it put a marker in my, or a chapter in my life experience to say that, okay, you’ve designed something that people want. You’ve developed it and you can move on. So, I kind of, it gave me a little bit of more freedom to think about what I wanted to do moving forward. So, coming into that decade in 2020, sorry, 2010, I really opened myself up more to what I could achieve in different areas and that’s where I guess Enterprise Lab was born. It was born on the premise of actually trying to make change in a pre-existing world and we focused primarily on young people, the future generation. That’s where it landed and brought value, it really came about because I felt I needed to go back and maybe tell my story or tell education leaders that I’m not educated. I didn’t finish university. It doesn’t mean that your answer’s out there and that the grass is getting greener.
– Yeah, and your life is ended. Not like you have no more opportunities. There is nothing more for you
– Yeah, exactly.
– [Simone] You can create something for yourself.
– Exactly, so, we looked down that line and I guess the last ten years have been interesting because the journey I’ve taken as a business owner has become, has moved from that Robert Kiyosaki model of self-employed to solopreneur to business owner, to now being more the investor. I am more invested into my business. I’m a lot more relaxed. I’m a lot more frugal. It’s not always about spending money and having the flash. It’s really about reinvesting and growing, growing the business. We, I’ve learned a lot of things along the way in terms of how to burn yourself out completely, toxicity, all sorts of things. And we are here today coming into a new decade, a very different proposition. We are much, much more aggressive in the market. We are delivering a lot of impact in a lot of different ways and I myself am a lot happier as you can see.
– You talked about burnout. Was that 2017 from?
– Yeah, so 2017 was, well, there’s a couple of things. I mean, I went through a whole period in 2013, 2014, when I got malaria after excessive travel to Africa. That almost killed me and I was told you’re not going back to Africa. I was bothered by my family but also I was like you’ve gotta change the way you’re working. But I didn’t really change. I just did it for a little while and then went back to the old way of doing things. And we got to around 2017 and that’s when it really hits. I spent about eight months of the year travelling the world. I know it sounds glamorous. I did over 160,000 miles of travel. Five continents, 42 cities, 250 keynotes and projects that I was involved with in that time. I hadn’t even finished my roster of work and travel. By the time I’d come back from Hong Kong which incidentally I got through from via Guatemala, so I went from minus seven GMT to plus eight in three days. I just went completely dark in my head. I just wanted to get under a cover. I didn’t want to eat. I didn’t want to drink. I didn’t want to talk to anyone. I didn’t want to do nothing and it really, it really shook me up and we needed to change things. So, I adapted the model. I had to look within myself and say, it’s either you’re gonna kill yourself trying to do these things or you’re gonna have to kill the way you do your business. And I chose the latter. I still have the interest of impacting legacy and everything that I do, however we do it very differently now. It’s all about bringing other people into the business. So, I went back to my original, ironically, the original company that I had which was a project management company. We now procure projects and we outsource those projects to experts that are from our network. They do the work. Our clients receive the service. We are continuously allowed to expand. It also means that I don’t have to be in eight different places at the same time. I can actually be.
– It’s way more manageable. I think that everyone is listening right now. They can think about a moment where they were, as I mentioned before, they were biting way more than they could chew, that they overextended themself. Because there is something addictive when you get momentum in your business. There is something addictive to that when you’re seeing the result, when you’re seeing your called left, right and centre. And you don’t want to miss that opportunity, but at what cost?
– Well, it’s interesting you say that, Simone, because the word busyness or business is into the business, busyness, I think what happens when people first start off is they have this enthusiasm and excitement and there’s the uncertainty and they have this motivation and this drive. Then it kind of dips down a little bit. You get this little bit of a lull. Sometimes perhaps you’re not getting the kind of clients that you expected or you’re not getting the fees that you thought you could and then you start questioning yourself. Am I good enough? And all this kind of self-sabotage starts happening. Then you really put, you find your groove. You find something, you find someone. You’re either their mentor or business partner or a client comes along. And all of a sudden, whoosh, you go onto this upward trend. The problem is you become very busy in what you’re doing. So, I was busy travelling around the world. I was busy trying to go from here, there and everywhere, saying yes to everything. Whereas the power of no was a lot more effective. But not the power of no saying, “No, I can’t work with you.” “No, I can work with you in this current way.” That was the difference in what goes on from here. Now, you know that people say the hardest thing is getting to your first million in terms of revenue. Actually, the hardest is getting to your first 100,000. That’s the truth of it. From there, what you’ve gotta do is you’ve gotta move away and remove yourself from the business because once you get to a six-figure earning you have designed a system that works. And what you’ve gotta do is then build that system into your business and start to get others to build, work off that system. And then that’s where scalability comes on from there. So, one of the things that I’ve learned over the years is you don’t have to be the centre of your company. You don’t have to be the nucleus and the epicentre. You can be the heart and the drive and the motivation and inspiration but tomorrow you become part of your business as opposed to the whole thing. And this system that we built allows us all to work to our best capabilities and our best abilities and perform in a way which allows us to take the company and what we do to newer heights in different ways. So, that’s something that
– It makes it, and it makes perfect sense on the journey. Now, there are two stages because now with Enterprise Lab you do mainly a really large contractor. Or with governments, you work with governments. So, you work with councils, the public sector. You work in the private sector with larger organisations. And so, there is, you mentioned one thing which is the first step on the scale process which is the removing yourself out the equation. But there is always that, at the beginning there is that thing, the no one can do things as well as I can do. All, that’s all, I mean, in particular you are in an industry which is not like a product industry. It’s a service-based industry. It’s an industry that a lot of time, that in particular our industry is based on strong personal brand. And so, there is this trap that this industry creates for us if we don’t find a way to escape it that now people want you, they want your demand, and we think, or we think or we position everything so that people want us for some ego trips or whatever. Just because that’s what we are used to. So, let’s talk about the first step. What makes this transition possible from it’s just me to?
– I think you hit a very important point when it comes down to this, look, no one can do it as good as me. There is a little bit of your inner ego that will push you this way. And I’ll be honest with you, it’s not just about your ego. There’s also a fear. It’s not the fear of failure. It’s the fear of success. Actually, what will my business look like if I’m not even in it anymore? What if it does hit the markers? People are more scared to take action because of what they’re gonna become rather than failing. I’ll be honest with you. It’s for us, we, the first bit of advice I give on this on when you’re going into that part where you have a system and you’re moving towards scaling is you’ve got to also think about diversifying your revenue generating exercises. So, right now you could be a coach. You could be a consultant. You could be a single or a two-person business where both of you are going out doing certain things. The technical part of your business is coming through you. However if you start to think about how you diversify your revenue, if you create different ways, so you could have workshops, you could have consulting hours, you could have projects, you could have books, you can have e-book, I don’t know, whatever. All these multiple different revenue streams. Now, what happens is you start to apply your genius into those systems which means what you’re doing is you’re producing products and services that don’t need you physically there but has this whole part of your personal brand attached to it. Now, what that allows you then to do is to create more and more revenue in different and diverse ways. So, normally what I intend to do is I draw a pyramid, it’s not a pyramid scheme, or a triangle if you want to think of it this way. Cut it into three sections and there are three areas, levels, that we talk about in terms of how you scale your business. The first one is do it yourself. The second one is we do it together. And the third one is done for you. Now, this is a typical marketing structure but we actually use this in operation of your business. The do it, the DIY process is where you produce all your genius and you take it, I mean, GTeX do it, you guys it. You’ve got it in your booklets and the guides and things that you build. And what you do is you put that back out into the market and say, “Do you know what? “I really, really want to work with you “but I just don’t have the time, the capacity, “or I shouldn’t really be at that level anymore.” Because you’re at high demand. “But we can start our relationship with you from here. “We’ll give you the insights. “You get on with it yourself, you DIY.” Now, the truth is most people in the world want answers. That’s all they want. They want you to show them how to do something.
– The clarity.
– That’s what they say that’s what they want. That’s what they say. So, what happens is the next level of that pyramid is actually called we do it together. Now, on a we do it together, it’s the situation where we, it’s the customer saying, “Okay, you’ve given me “the answers but I still don’t know how to do it.” So, I’m like, “Okay, do you need a bit of help?” “Yes, okay, I need some help.” That’s what the customer’s telling you. So, the we do it together, this is where you start to scale out in terms of your resources. This is the Simone Vincenzi system, or the Ketan Makwana system, or whatever it needs to be, but it’s gonna be delivered by A, B and C. So, these are accredited resources who are trained in your system and they’re the people that work with the client. Now, you are now taking a percentage of whatever sale is going on there. So, typically the way we work is we will bill mentoring by the hour. We’ll have an expert that will deliver the mentoring. We give them a proportion of that hourly fee and we keep the rest. So, what happens is your business is growing even while you’re not doing the work there. And then eventually what happens is people start to say to you, “Yes, I know you’re here helping me, “showing me how to do it but really, honestly, “I’ve got the answers. “I’ve got you as a resource to help me, “but truthfully I just need you to do it for me. “I have no inclination whatsoever.”
– “I don’t have the time. “I’m too busy to implement it “or it just will take me longer “to even work it together so just get it done.”
– That’s the top of your pyramid. And really what you should have is a small customer base but a very high fee. Okay, I’ll take my time now. I’ll invest my time and do it for you. So, if you think of it, if we were doing a root down to how to create a 2,000,000 pound business, for example, I would have 10 clients at 10 grand a month for 10 months in my done for you system. That’s a million just at the top. Now, that’s normally done by the senior experts of the business. In the middle now you create a bank of thousands of hours that you are selling and you’re keeping 50 to 55% of the revenue that you’re generating. And then you create tens of thousands of the people doing the DIY at a three figure price. Do you get it? Now, if you do the math on all of those, you can get up to a eight, a multiple seven, well, not multiple seven, but I would say a 2,000,000 pound business you can generate. And guess what, you’re only putting your time at the top which means you are only expending X number of hours per day, per month, and this is the whole work smart not hard type of thing. So, most people, what happens is they get to a stage of their business career and when they hit this point it pivots one of two ways. You either stay in that zone and it sounds boring and it sounds like it’s gonna be rubbish and it’s like, okay, I’m making six figures. I’m happy, I can pay my bills, I can do this.
– People are plexed.
– [Ketan] And you just keep on that circle. You have to keep going round on that circle. But most people’s ambition is no, I want to be multinational. I want to make a million. I want to do this, I want to do that. But they just don’t understand how to make that transition or transactional change and that’s where this kind of system needs to be put into place. You need to start thinking of right, I need multiple revenue streams. I need to create multiple systems. I need to resource those systems and I need most importantly, Simone, to get out of my own way. That’s the worst part. The thing is we created this business. We feel that we are the father or the mother of this business. We own it, it’s ours, and no one can do things the way we can do. The minute you start to bring in these kind of systems it’s amazing how much things flourish and change.
– And how much actually people can prove that they can do sometimes actually the work way better than you can.
– That is the thing, you can’t be a genius at everything.
– Absolutely that we had, we went through this process in the past two years because we went, so we got 15 people working with us in our team. And also, we started branching out in other industry and taking shares of other companies. So, we have actually now an investment branch of GTeX. So, we have three companies in our portfolio.
– [Ketan] Amazing.
– We are shareholders of the outside companies that our in other industries. It’s just like companies that we are there to grow and sell as an investment. And what I found during the process of getting the people to deliver the training, just me being lead generation at the moment and then having all the training delivered by others, there was a loss of identity that I had to go through. Because I didn’t, I couldn’t really see where my place was anymore in the business. I was doing all these things and now I say that you can do it but I will always have my say on that and I was literally stopping my team from doing stuff because I say, yeah, you can do it but I want to know how you’re doing it. Or no, no, no, no, no, don’t do it this way. Do it the other way. And it came from a place where I don’t know where my place is anymore.
– Well, the thing, this is, I think you’re hitting the nail on the head. I think it’s this loss of identity. Who am I anymore? What, I have clients that we work with who come in, who come through and in our pre-consultation I say, “Right, okay, what is it you want to be in 12 months? “Do you want to be sitting on a beach? “Do you want to be doing this, “do you want to be doing this?” And they describe this whole thing and I’m like, “You do realise that in order to change your life “to have that you’re gonna have to change “your life in business.” And they go, “What do you mean?” And I said, “You’re gonna get to a stage “where you’re gonna say to me, Ketan, “I don’t know what I should be doing “in my business anymore.” And when people are at that stage, that, or they, I feel guilty that I’m not doing anything in my business, I’m like, “Congratulations, welcome to the world “of owning a company.”
– Welcome to the business owner world.
– [Ketan] Yeah, exactly.
– It was a fascinating, it was a total fascinating, I mean, it’s a fascinating experience and so now I want to go, let’s say, we’re putting these things in place. So, we are creating, we are growing the team. So, now that’s there, that’s where the business is at. You mentioned, I want to now switch topics and talk about the contractors. You’re talking about big contracts that you’re doing and I want to have an awareness and ask a bit more about the word that, what’s this word of the contracts where that you get. You said, no, it takes way longer to get in. There are a lot of moving piece of the puzzle. So, give us a bit more light on that.
– So, before we go into that, obviously it’s important that you look at what your scalability system is. And when you are scaling, the first question you have to ask yourself is, what are you scaling and why are you scaling that? Because you can scale revenue, you can scale resource, you can scale contracts, you can scale profit, you can scale all these different areas. You can’t do all of it at the same time. Now, when we started looking at scalability, we looked at scale of resource because I thought the more experts I have in my system or in my network, the people that could deliver the service, the more contracts I can go for, the better contracts we can go for, the more effective our revenues will be, the better our profits will be. So, everything had a domino effect that goes alongside with it. But you have to pick one area. So, if you say, right, I want to scale my revenue, that could mean that you are selling a lot of the same stuff but just more of it in multiple different ways. Improving your profit is one of the ways. I feel the easiest way to scale is resource. Scale with your experts and people first because the more people you have delivering your system, the more chances you have you’re gonna get more customers and so on and so forth. So, this naturally led towards becoming, we couldn’t just stay in the market and say, right, we’re gonna do one to one stuff all the time. I needed to look at one to many. So, what I started to do is explore the world of public sector contracting and looking at more private, larger base contracts. So, we have contracts with Raiffeisen Bank for example across all of Europe where we work with them on innovation training and stuff like that. Or Union Credit where we look at working on employee innovation and stuff like that. These are contracts that last between one and three years. So, that’s one side. That’s a private sector contract. On the flip side I started to look at public sector. Now, some of you who are watching this may have already done gone for tenders or things like that here in the UK, et cetera, but the biggest problem you have with these tenders is if you’re a small business they’re not really gonna look at you. If you haven’t even generated the type of income that they are offering on their contracts they’re never gonna look at you. So, one of the first things that I used to like to do is rather than going in as Enterprise Lab I was going in as Enterprise Lab under another bigger brand. So, I’d go to another company and say, “Look, I want to go for this tender. “I think we could do this tender brilliantly. “Your reputation, credibility and build “along with my value will allow us to win this contract.” And what you’re doing is piece by piece, you’re winning small, small contracts. Now, that’s the secret of public sector contracting. Win, win small, be part of the win. The more wins you get this way, the more you become credible in public sector eyes. Because to be honest with you, public sector is very much of we’ve got the money. We have absolutely no inclination of delivering. We want someone else to come in and do the work. So, this is how we started off. 10% of something is better than 100% of nothing. And slowly you build your reputation up. Now, today we’re a force to be reckoned with. I can go into public sector contracting and it’s the other way around now. Where I was the 10%, I have now got people in my expert partner network or other companies coming to me and saying, “We really want “to get this contract. “We’re not sure if we can do it.” And I’m like, “Well, we can help you win it. “If we don’t do any other work in it “we’ll take X percentage of your revenue “when basically for helping you win it.” I’ve got a network of tender bid writers who just sit there all day long writing bids basically to win. So, it’s become a world of who you know, not what you know in that respect.
– [Simone] Yeah, absolutely.
– Now, public sector contracting also then allowed me to become a little bit more fluent and because of the work that I did with the government here in the UK and my past special advisory with David Cameron and stuff like that, I was able to actually use that as leverage to go and speak to other ministries and governments around the world. And this is where you’re not tendering for public sector contract. What you’re doing is you’re strategizing a project and you’re saying, “Look, this is the outcome “that you’re trying to reach. “This is the budget you have. “This is the programme that we can provide you.” And to cut a long story short, in last year, not last year, the year before, 2018 in September, actually March I went out to Thailand to speak for the MIT event and I met with a couple of ministers while we were at the MIT show. I then put together a proposal for them and then in September we signed a contract with two government agencies there. That contract has now manifested into a five year contract which is worth about 75,000,000 pounds to our business. I used to work with 5,000 businesses to help grow them through innovation. So, they apply for our services. They pay us for our services and the government gives them the money back.
– Gives them the money.
– So, what I did is I went in and rather than said, “Oh, you’ve got a project. “I’m gonna tender for it.” I went to the government and I said, “You’ve got all this money. “Let me show you how you can spend it “and get a return on.” Now, guess what. You’ve gotta be able to put your money where your mouth is basically with this. So, I didn’t just walk in and sign on for a five year contract. We put in a one year pilot clause which finishes in May this year. So, I’m off in April to Thailand to meet with the Thai Prime Minister to then show how our pilot has worked and behind that we’ve got this five year gig that’s going on. So, I guess if you’re, it doesn’t matter how big or small you are. We are a small company by definition. I mean, I was going up against the likes of Deloitte, KPMG, PwC. These are big companies.
– Big, these are the big four.
– And I beat them to that contract and I’m a small dot in a big sea compared to that. And the difference that was made there is I went in with a plan. I went in with a strategy. I went in with what I can do best. Now, the answer again comes back to the same thing that I said about public sector contracting which is if you go in and you don’t feel like you have the full credibility and the full weight behind you
– Partner up.
– [Ketan] Partner up.
– Partner up, yep.
– And this is exactly what you do when you’re going out to other governments and ministries. You go in, because there are, I mean, we’re currently looking at capability programme with South Africa. They’ve got mining funds and I’m like, I can’t do this on my own. So, we’re teaming with BMW and Deloitte basically in South Africa. I’m currently looking at a project in Kuwait with, called the National Fund. We want to actually partner with a bank that will, a bit like what we did here in the UK with the startup loan scheme we created the business plan. We’re gonna create a Kuwaiti bank which specialises in investing Kuwaiti government money into Kuwaiti businesses.
– So, what I’m hearing you saying here is that there are a few, two big lessons. One is start small, start with a small win. Get your name out there. Get your credibility, get your reputation and that if something is a bit too big that you might not be comfortable or you know that they are going to be looking at bigger businesses then partnership, partnership, partnerships.
– Well, it is absolutely right. So, very quickly, you’ve been in business for a number of years. You have a reputation in the market. You have a following, you have credibility. If you’re out there watching this right now and you are someone that’s in the, I don’t know, training space, mentoring space, business consulting space, that you’re not getting to be able to hit home on that business services contract that you want to get, I would go to a bigger firm. I would go to Simone, and I would say, “Simone, this is what I want to do. “This is the kind of people I want. “I think two heads are better than one. “We could do, you could do this, I could do that.” And believe me, you build small wins. It’s like ants, the more small wins you have, the bigger it becomes.
– Then it goes, yeah.
– [Ketan] You can actually move mountains with that.
– Absolutely, so, well, thank you very much for all you’ve shared so far, man, and I’m sure that everyone who is listening or watching right now is that they are scribbling like crazy on all I got to do for this next year, in particular, if they want to win this kind of contract. Now, it’s time to go into last part of the interview which is the lifting the veil. Lifting the veil, so, what is one thing that you either, like a book that you read that is worth sharing or an app that you use or a practise that you do, what is something that can be, that can change our listeners’, our viewers’ life?
– So, look, there are so many different things you can do in so many different ways, from meditation to reading about something. The most important thing is practising . At the end of the day, you can read to your heart’s delight but if you don’t practise anything that you learn, you’re never gonna be able to take it to another stage. You also need to unlearn to learn if that makes sense. You need to create a bit of capacity in the old noggin over there, otherwise it’s not gonna work. There are two books that I’ve engaged with multiple times over the last couple of years that I really, I won’t say helped me. They’ve become part of my foundation and part of the way that I move forward, the way I make my decisions, the reason I make my decisions and the reason that I am able to do what I’ve been able to do. The first one is called “Principles” by Ray Dalio.
– Oh, yeah.
– Now, this book, I tell you, it’s so well written, so simple but do you know, I’ll be honest with you. You can read it 10 times over. If you don’t practise any of this, you’re not going to move forward. So, guys, don’t just go running out and buy “Principles” from Amazon or wherever. I’m not an agent of Ray Dalio’s yet here or I’m not his press agent in that particular way. Whatever you do with this book, make sure the one thing is take it a piece at a time.
– A piece at a time, yeah, totally.
– [Ketan] I’m not a big reader in that particular way. I can’t take volumes of stuff. I take small bits, turn it upside down, inside out, and I make it, I systemize it for me. So, just because Ray’s written a principle doesn’t mean it’s my principle. I’m like, okay, I’m gonna use Ray’s methodology or principles to make my principle. Does that make sense?
– So good, such a good read book. I’d recommend everyone to get it and as Ketan said, just do one chapter at a time.
– Believe me, you’ll get through it very quickly and you’ll revisit it so many times.
– Same here.
– There is one other book and this is not one that you’d normally would see of the cuff. So, it’s not a Tony Robbins. It’s not this, it’s not Richard Branson or anything. It’s by a guy called Matthew Syed and it’s called “Rebel Ideas.” Now, “Rebel Ideas”, it’s a whole way of diverse thinking. You see, we are programmed to think in a particular way. We, I’ve always said in my keynotes and everything, there’s more than one answer to any one question. The thing for you to be able to think differently comes from this whole way of bringing diverse thinking in. And what Matthew has done in this book is he’s created a series of case studies of events that have happened in our lifetime and he’s showed how a divergence in thinking has changed the, and authored the things that come in life. And what’s interesting is people, most times what you learn from this book is most times that you make that change in your thinking and the change in your action, you don’t even know where it’s gonna take you. The key, the problem is with us is we’re too regimented. We think of, right, this is exactly what it’s gonna look like, exactly what it’s gonna feel like and I’m gonna take this action. It’s like weight loss. People look at weight loss and they’re like, you know what, I’m gonna stop doing this and in six weeks I’m gonna have a flat stomach. And guess what, they get to eight weeks and their stomach’s bulging more than it was before. And why? And I go, “Well, it was Christmas, duh.” My point being with the book is it’s not a read for you to practise from. It’s a read for you to understand that, I as a disruptor, I think very differently. And I latched on to so many different things here where I’m thinking, well, why wouldn’t you do this instead of that? It’s always good looking at 20/20 hindsight but it’s a learning curve for anyone out there to think, what could I think of differently or how should I think of a situation differently? Because there are more ways to the answer than the way you’re just looking at.
– Well, thank you for sharing. So, we have “Principles” from Ray Dalio and this one is
– Matthew Syed’s “Rebel Ideas.”
– “Rebel Ideas” Matthew Syed. Well, the link are going to be in the show notes, so guys, make sure you get the books. There is no affiliation, no affiliate links. These are some really good resources, some really good resources for you. Ketan, what an interview, oh my God. It’s been so great touching base after probably like a year, a year plus that we haven’t had a proper conversation, so it was great catching up. Thank you for sharing your wisdom from operating from the trenches. You have been living and breathing everything you have been sharing today. So, what if someone wants to reach out to you, wants to get in touch with you? What are the best way?
– So, I’m on all socials. You can find me on Facebook. I kind of live more socially on Facebook these days than anything else. LinkedIn’s a great way to catch up with me and find me. You can come through the website and get in touch if there’s anything that we can help you with.
– What’s the website?
– [Ketan] EnterpriseLab.co.uk so Enterprise L-A-B .co.uk We’ve got loads of things up in this year in terms of we’re gonna be out in more events and doing a lot more physical activities with UK entrepreneurs and stuff like that. So, look, if you just want to come and have a chat, hang out, come and find me. I’m not, I’m always looking for someone to have a conversation with half the time when I’m not doing anything. And look, if there’s anything that we can do to help, that’s what we’re here for. So, remember, 10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
– There we go, thank you very much, Ketan. Thank you, and guys, make sure you check him out. All these social media links are in the show notes. Website is in the show notes so make sure you hit him up. And also, if you’ve been listening to this episode and you’ve been watching then share with him. And what’s some of the biggest takeaway? We do these interviews but there is, share with him, reach out to him. Say, this is what something I’ve learned from you that I’m going to apply. So, thank you. It really goes a long way so please do that. Ketan, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. I’ll see you next episode and remember that together we grow exponentially, ciao.