Welcome to episode #124 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview our GTeX Lifetime Member Jelena Radonjic
Jelena is a career fulfillment coach with over 20 years experience in international recruitment, CTI trained, multilingual and results oriented. Her USP is – I know how recruiters think and what they want to see, and I know how personal coaches work. You will rarely find someone who does deeper work combined with practical guidance around job search and interviews.
In this episode, we talk about
- Career coaching is not only about getting a job
- How career coaching can help with clarity, direction and confidence
- It can be fun too and an affordable investment with huge ROI
Connect with Jelena Radonjic
To Become a GTeX Member, apply here
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– Hello ladies and gentlemen. And welcome to another episode of explode your expert, business show. Today I’m here with the one and only Jelena Radonjic. How are you doing?
– Hello Sebonet I’m really well. How are you?
– I’m incredibly well. I like the way you look super sharp for this interview.
– Thank you.
– I told you before I need to put something, else on right now. But we are not here to talk about how we are dressed today.
– We are here to talk about you. So you’re an incredible career coach. And before we get started talking about some career tips. What I would love to know is why did you decide to go into, career coaching.
– Okay. Well first of all thank you for inviting me to be guest, on your podcast. I’m really privileged and honoured to know you. And work with you. And yes as far as my story goes. My recruitment background I guess was a solid base. For the decision to become a career coach. But also my really, really deep and genuine interest, in human nature. And in helping people get to where they want to be, in terms of their careers. I see when I say a career I don’t see just a job. Like go to work, get paid, pay the bills. To me it has more meaning and more significance. And that is the bit that I like to incorporate, in my coaching. Which is really assisting people in finding out, who they are. What matters to them. And how they can then use that and live that in their, career, job, work call it whatever. It doesn’t matter what it’s called. As long as they can actually apply themselves, with passion and love what they do.
– And what was something that you found that was missing, in the way that normally you know people get jobs. And that got you to say actually this is needed out there. Or I wish I had it. For example. For an experience that you had.
– Sure, sure. I guess in my recruitment work over the years. I saw a lot of candidates well CV’s and spoke to them, on the phone and face to face. And very often there was fear. There was insecurity. There was this doubt. Is this what I really want? Whether candidates were sort of younger people. Early careers or even more experienced people. Also I’d say one thing that is a theme that goes across. Is lack of self awareness. And that’s why I mentioned one of my favourite quotes. Which is know thy self. You really need to explore yourself. And be aware of not only your potential. But really strengths and weaknesses. So that then you can present that to potential employers. Otherwise you will just get caught. Otherwise. And you may be very talented. Or have fantastic experience. Or fantastic potential. But you cannot actually express that to your employers. If first of all you’re not aware of all those things. And secondly you’re not aware of how to actually formulate, them and package them. So that the employers or whoever you’re discussing with. Could be contract work. Could be even a corporation project. It doesn’t have to necessarily be employment. So that they actually understand you. And see the best of what you can offer.
– Have you ever been in a position yourself, where you were not sure about, oh should I go for this career or this career. Have you ever been in that position yourself?
– Actually to a certain degree. I think I was fortunate in the sense that I always knew, I wanted to work with people. And I’ll tell you a short story about how I actually got my, first corporate job which was in Tokyo. In Japan because my background is in languages. I studied English language and literature. Japanese language and literature. So obviously yes I did want to go to Japan. And work.
– Was it difficult to learn?
– It wasn’t easy. It takes time. It takes a lifetime pretty much. But I loved it. I really loved it. So yes but obviously I still wasn’t sure what it would be, that I could do with that. Apart from translation and interpreting. Which is the bits I did already as a student. So I was lucky actually to, having been introduced by may language professor. To a group of business men that were visiting. They were going around Europe. Campuses. And recruiting students who spoke Japanese to go, and work in Japan. And at first I was a little bit reluctant. Because I was just studying for my final in English, literature so it’s completely different from. My mind was elsewhere. But my professor said no I want you to go, because I said oh well another student can go. She was like no, no you go. And that was a little I say a call from my destiny really. So I did go even though I felt unprepared. So anyways to cut the long story short. I met with them. We discussed. I even invited them to my home. I showed them what I studied. All the notebooks. And all the writing I practised. They asked me to read some articles from the newspapers. Which I could do. But still I had no idea that they were actually recruiting, me that was there way of interviewing me. So when they invited me to a career fair in London. Which I attended. I realised that they didn’t have a stand for interviews. So I said I really love what you do. The fact that you bring people. Young people. And employers. And you help both sides. To me this is really meaningful. That’s what I want to do. So they impromptu organised an interview for me. With the president of the company. Which was really scary because it was in Japanese. And I was like completely unprepared. But yeah it was he only asked me three or four questions. Because obviously his employees had done the investigation, before and that’s how I landed my first job. Which was quite an interesting story. I think unusual. And it’s quite different to what people have to go through. These days to get the job.
– Yeah it doesn’t sound like, the normal standard interview at all.
– Not at all but it’s a job.
– Is it just the company? Or is it the way that the Japanese do?
– Well I think it’s a combination of both. I think they prefer to test you out in subtle ways. And I guess they could see from my hard work. And determination as a young student. From a country that didn’t have that many resources. Or opportunities. They could probably see that I was hard working. And determined and that I would do quite well. But at the time yeah of course interview structures, did exist and I did interview with a few other company’s, of that particular career phase. You asked me if I ever thought about a different career. And I was actually offered a place in a graduates team. By a major accounting supervisor. But then I thought this is not really what I want to do. I’m not the numbers person. I’m the words person. I’m the people person. So yeah that’s what happened.
– And also you said that you mentioned that you were coming, from a country that didn’t have many resources there. Which country did you come from originally?
– Yugoslavia. At the time when I left it was still Yugoslavia. Which then fell apart unfortunately. But I come from Serbia. From Belgrade. That’s where I studied. And that’s where I left from.
– And you mentioned before we just started that you were, the first woman apparently from Yugoslavia to get a job, in Japan.
– That’s true.
– And for that to be interviewed in magazines.
– That’s true yes.
– How did you feel about that? When you found out that actually you were the first woman, from Yugoslavia to get a job in Japan.
– It sounds a little bit weird. I have to say I was twenty four. Okay so I was still like oh my god what is going on. It was really exciting. As for the interviews. Yes I was interviewed by the Japanese newspaper. Nihongo which is the equivalent of the, Financial Times in the UK. That was a small article I still have it somewhere. And I was also interviewed by some Yugoslavia then. Or Serbian papers. And even a women’s magazine. In the sense to kind of promote yes our women can do that, as well so that was quite flattering. It was nice.
– And did you like the spotlight at the moment? Or were you resisting them a bit.
– I was resisting a bit I think. But no it was okay. It was okay. I actually liked it yeah.
– Okay so now let’s talk about. How do you work differently to other coaches? That work in the career in terms of helping people with, their career because you know like in every coaching market. There are hundreds of coaches. Thousands of coaches in every nation. What’s the beauty of this industry? Which I absolutely love. Is that everyone has a different approach. That has been developed from their passion. From their experience. From their expertise. From their background. So what I would love to know is the kind of work that you, do how is it different? Or what do you add to career coaching, that we can see normally from other company’s.
– Okay sure. So I wouldn’t say that this is my propriety beckon. Because I’m sure there are other coaches who also, sort of dig deeper in order to assess really the, personality of the client. But for me that is probably the most, crucial part of the work. So I would say I combine work as a life coach. A personal coach. And a career coach. So in other words I really like to get to know my client. And even more I like to help them get to know themselves. That is the crucial bit really. So it’s about what drives them. What motivates them? What are their natural talents? But what are their self limiting beliefs. Because that bit is incredibly important. And I help clients identify actually what’s stopping them. That’s one of the first questions that I ask. And what have you tried so far? And what has stopped you to get to where you want to be? So I’d say the first phase is exploration. Which is really important. And this is the bit that I feel like I get quite precise, and quick insight into what the potential issue. Or issues are. Simply because of my training because I haven’t mentioned, in terms of how I got into career coaching. Is that on top of the recruitment experience. I did a lot of self development work. In various guises. So that is helping a lot to get the quick and sharp insight. In to the client. And then only once we have gone through that phase. Which doesn’t have to be long. It could be two sessions. Of course with the client doing some work, in between sessions. Then we would start to actually qualify. Because the first was the exploration. The second would be qualification. Of what we have come up with. And where is that going to take the client. And what routes. Then we start designing the road map. And then once all of that is done. Then I would look at the external expressions of that. Such as the CV or the resume. The Linkedin profile. The interview preparation and all of that. Whereas I have a feeling that a lot of other coaches, focus on the external bit. But to me it’s really important to do the, internal bit first properly.
– You mentioned the fact that we are limiting beliefs. And you mentioned the fact that there are sometimes blocks. And particularly because I know you work specifically, with the people that want to advance their career. And that they are not senior managers. And what are some of the workings with your clients. Because I think it’s very relevant, also for the entrepreneur work. I mean there are experts listening right now. They are running their own business. So they might not necessarily be looking for a job. But I think it is sometimes that they’re looking for a, transition in their own business as well. And every time there is a transition. Every time there is a step up. I found that there are some things that play in our minds. That are stopping us to say oh I’m I really the person for, that level so what do you find that are the most common, problems or struggles that people face. When they have to do the upgrade.
– Sure when there is a challenge. Well we all face that including myself. And on a daily basis. It’s quite common and quite normal. Well from the psychological point of view. There’s lots of I would say conscious beliefs that, sometimes run our lives. Particularly if we are not aware of them. One would be I’m not good enough. Okay or I need to be perfect. Or I need to control. Or I don’t belong. I mean there’s loads. There’s about twelve that I work with. But they can all express themselves. In different ways. Either as compensating strategies. Or people avoid certain things. Or they actually over do certain things. In order to compensate. So it’s a little bit difficult to talk about it in abstract. In an abstract way. But in examples with clients it becomes quite obvious. Very quickly. And also obviously these beliefs they can have a positive, and negative side. Like anything there’s always two sides to the coin. So it is really becoming aware of it. And tapping into it’s own. So that you can use it in a purposeful way. Rather than submitting to the negative self talk. Which can then say oh yeah I’m not good enough. Or I need to do more. I need to do more. Or I need to please certain people. Or worry too much about what whoever is going, to think about me and my work. And or my business. So tackling all of that one by one is very important. I would say.
– And now it’s interesting because you’re saying tackling, one by one. Do you find that there’s sometimes there can be multiple, playing at the same time. Or is that the case of you find there, is one that is dominant. If you find and notice like a pattern. This is just out of curiosity.
– Sure. I’d say that we all have a host of beliefs obviously. That we’ll live throughout our lives. Not necessarily all of them are limiting beliefs. But they do go in sync with our values. And that’s another thing that I also explore, with my clients. Very much. Because that’s what underpins their life. And their view of life. And therefore what’s important to them. But I’d say yes. Usually one belief is predominant. And then there will be two or three at least in addition. As little chaperones.
– And so let’s say someone has the belief. Which I think for a lot of people can be common. When they have to make that step up. Of I am not good enough. I am not good enough for that position. You know I’m not good enough for that role. Or you’re running a business. I’m not good enough to charge to the mount. They’re playing very often. Also from my experience. And a lot of people that I’ve worked with. So what is an exercise that you recommend to your clients. When you recognise that there is the belief. I am not good enough.
– Sure okay. It’s not an exercise per say. But in a conversation. I would guide the conversation. Through a series of what I call quality questions. Or powerful questions. So one of the things I would ask is for them to, look back at their CV or their history or their Linkedin. Or it doesn’t matter. And pick up one or two or three achievements. That they’re really proud of. And tell me about them.
– And then I would ask them so is this the same person. That is talking to me now. And what happened to that person. I mean not necessarily may be in those words. But that’s the gist you see. Or I would sometimes even for interview coaching. Which I do as a specific part of my coaching. I would ask them to talk to me about the most proud, experience of their life. So it’s obviously it’s digging back into those achievements. And anchoring the idea of success. Of achievement. Because everyone. Every person on earth has something that they have done, that is worthwhile and valuable. So it’s reminding them of that. But there are other things. Such as the peak experience. Which you know they could be like guided meditations. Or exercises that we can do as well.
– That’s perfect. So from what you’re saying is it’s about getting them to, reflect about the good things. Instead of focusing on what they don’t have. Or what they’re looking for to reach the next level. It’s about focusing actually what do you have. That actually plays in your favour. For you to reach that promotion. Or to change that career.
– Absolutely. Absolutely.
– And I think it’s a crucial part. Because it doesn’t matter for where we are. There are a lot of people out listening to our podcasts. That are also millionaires. Multi millionaires. And I found that having conversations with them. Having some of them as my clients. Then there is still the next thing. And there is still this fear. Because every stage that we have in our life. Kind of we need to reinvent ourselves. For we need to reinvent a part of ourselves. In order to be that person. That is different from the one that we have been. That got us so far. So it’s really fascinating. Thank you for sharing.
– Absolutely. But it’s also about reminding them of in theory. But also in practise. If you’ve done something once or twice. Then of course you’ll be able to do it again. Maybe the context is slightly different. But the ability’s there. The skill is there. The potential is there. And in terms of other types of coaching because what I just, told you about is the so called fulfilment coaching. Which is one of the processes. Which I love. But there’s also balance coaching. Where you actually get the client to take all different, perspectives of the issue. So say if the issue is I don’t know say, fear of public speaking. Then we could go through different perspectives. And they can look at that as I’m a five year old child. Or I can you know. I can be in nature and singing. Or just anything really that comes to you as a coach. And just explore that through fun. Through being natural. And seeing a particular issue from many different, perspectives and then adopting one perspective. That resonates the most. So it’s really about finding kind of roundabout ways. Or bypassing the rational mind. I do that through intuition as well quite a lot. Because the rational mind often unfortunately. Is you know there’s the subtle voice. And we need to acknowledge it first of all. And accept it. And then say thank you goodbye. I actually choose something else.
– Thank you for sharing. Now before we would also love to know you are one of our, awesome GDX lifetime members.
– Thank you.
– And I would love for you to share with the audience. Why did you decide to join the lifetime membership? And what value did that provide to you and your business?
– Okay. Well I decided to join because it really ticked all the, boxes for me. I mean if there are any boxes in reality. But first of all that you know yourself and Ben. And other members of your team. I find are very genuine. Really integrity. Always rendered to over deliver. Which is fantastic. Because not a lot of coaches or organisations do that. So you deliver what you promise and above. Also your passion and enthusiasm for helping other people. Is really a big driving force. And you just cannot resist that. In terms of trading it’s fantastic. It’s very down to earth. Practical and the bit that I love is the accountability. Okay. So you just by with the magic wand. I don’t know how you do it. But you get people to do things. Which I think probably if I had to single out one thing. That would be it.
– Thank you. Thank you for sharing.
– Your welcome.
– So guys if you are thinking about joining the lifetime, membership or you’re interested to understand about our, courses make sure to there is a link in the show notes. And then click the link. You will have more information. But now it’s time to wrap up with Jelena. Jelena I know that you have created ten, questions for people who want to change their career. And for people to be more aware about themselves. Can you tell us a bit more about that please.
– Yeah sure the document is actually ready. It’s quite a simple document where you can fill in your, own answers but I thought quite a bit about those questions. Because I wanted to make them in such a way. Formulate them in a such a way. That they capture the essence of the client’s. Both needs and beliefs and values and aspirations. So I’ll very happily share that document. For the audience. Or GDX members or anyone that you would like to pass it on. It’s meant to get you thinking about some of your values. About who you are. What you love doing. What you don’t like doing. Because all of these elements will actually give you some, pointers as to which way you would like to go. In terms of your work. Your career. Your job. Whatever it is that you’re doing.
– So I think it’s perfect for everyone, who is at a crossroad. That want to be more self aware. And want to see how they can make the best decision. So by answering these ten questions. Then will help you clarify what that’s gonna be. That next step of you. Based on who you truly are.
– And you know even if you are a coach yourself. We all need external help. Because we can be great with other people. But we need to help ourselves as well.
– Totally and absolutely. And that’s true for myself as well. I love to learn from other people. And other coaches. Because they help me. They’re my sounding board.
– Because again to go back to the initial quote. Know thy self is probably one of the hardest things. But yeah my wish and recommendation is for all of us, to continue you know clearing, cleaning the windows. So that we can really get the insights that we need.
– So we will put the link in the show notes. And in the blog post. That we will write about this interview. So make sure that you click the link. And get your ten questions. Because they are going to be very transformational. I definitely will get my copy. Because I’m always looking for way to improve myself. And you never know what you can find. So thank you very much Jelena. I really appreciate you coming.
– Thank you.
– Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now if your listening right now. Or you’re watching on youtube. Or you’re listening on iTunes. Or stitch or wherever spotify. Make sure you hit that juicy subscribe button. Do it right now. And also leave us a review. Of course five star. That was a five star interview of course. And then let me know what did you enjoy the most. About this show. What did you enjoy the most about this specific interview. That I did with Jelena. We will take all the top reviews that we receive. And then also give you a shout out here on the show. Jelena thank you very much once again.
– Thank you it was a pleasure and I’ll see you soon at GTX. I’m sure.
– I’ll see you definitely soon. And always remember that together we grow exponentially. Ciao.
– Thank you bye bye.