Welcome to episode #125 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview Janet Murray
Janet Murray is a PR and marketing strategist based near London in the UK. She is the author of Your Press Release Is Breaking My Heart: A Totally Unconventional Guide To Selling Your Story In The Media
In this episode, we talk about
- Why traditional media coverage is still relevant
- How to create shareable content that gets media attention
- Social media tools and resources that can help you get found by the traditional media
Connect with Janet Murray
To become a GTeX Member, Apply here:
If you want to make 6 figures presentations and become awesome at Selling From The Stage without compromising your integrity I have created The Ultimate Selling From Stage Checklist.
The most comprehensive checklist to create a pitch that sell without being a douchebag.
To receive daily support in your coaching and speaking business, join our private Facebook Group EXPLODE YOUR EXPERT BIZ
Tool of the day: Clickfunnels ( Create a high-converting marketing funnel in minutes – 14 Days Free Trial.)
Also, make sure you subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any other episode.
If you want to reach out to me with your questions, you can email me at Simone@gtex.org.uk that comes right to my inbox.
– Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Explode your Expert Business show. And today, we are here with Janet Murray. How you doing, Janet?
– I’m good, thank you, thanks, for having me.
– This is a, it feels like a part two of an interview, that we have been doing for your shows. I’m really excited about this interview, Janet, because it’s all about getting out there, getting media attention, getting publicity, and there is no one better than you, here in the U.K., at least, but also on a global scale, to cover this topic. So I’m really excited. Before we get started, Janet, can you tell us a bit more about what got you so passionate, about working in this industry, and a bit more about your background.
– Yeah, so, my background is journalism, actually, it’s where I spent 18 years writing, and editing for national newspapers, magazines, mainly the Guardian, actually, in the last sort of five, or six years, of my journalism career. And what happened was, I noticed something, and what I noticed is, is that people were to ridicule at pitching to media. So as a journalist, I would get these absolutely dreadful press releases, these dreadful pictures in my inbox, and I would just think, why would anyone want to cover that story. Then, I started to get a little bit cross, because I’ve always been freelance, so I’ve always worked for myself, and own my own business. Even, you now, kind of small sort of trader. And sometimes I’d see, that some of these press releases came from people like me, who were running their own business, and they were probably on a budget, or on a shoestring budget, and they were paying PR people, or they were paying PR companies, to write this drivel for them. And I thought to myself, look, if these guys don’t know how to write a press release, or a pitch that journalists are actually interested in, then I’m gonna show them how to do it. So I got together with another journalist, and we started running these pitching workshops in London, and we got quite big. Brands used to come, we had sent him there, John Lewis, big brands like that. But also, kind of smaller businesses, and brands, and charities. And we started running these pitching workshops, and then we thought, oh, actually, maybe if what these people really want to do, is they want to meet journalists, maybe we could start putting on bigger events. And we started running these kind of Meet the Media events, where we’d get all these journalists to come along, and talk. And all of this was just a side hustle, so we were just doing this along side of our day jobs, as journalists. And then I realised, that I was starting to get these kind if nice consultancy gigs, where people would put me to speak, or to go in and do consultants, be it pitching, or writing, whatever. So I had plenty more of this, so I started writing a book, I just though to myself, oh, how can I reach more people, about this training and these events. And I thought what I’d do, I’ll start a blog, and I can write on this blog, I can answer people’s questions, that they ask me all the time. How do you write a press release? How do you write a pitch? How do you get in touch with journalists? Many of these things that I know, ’cause I work in the industry. And then, people will find me. And what I didn’t realise, I was doing at the time, was doing content marketing. And because when I started blogging, I then had to know, but how do I actually get people to read my blog? How do I get people over to my website? How do I promote it, on social media? So I just kind of got stuck in learning all of this stuff. And meanwhile, I was working as a freelance journalist, still mainly for the Guardian, but it was for many national titles. After awhile, I started to think, actually, this is more fun than journalism, I like this more. And I’d been doing, I’d been writing for awhile, and editing for awhile, and I just thought, I’d like to do more of this. And actually, what I’d really like to do, is to help people who are running their own business, ’cause I thought that’d be really fun. So then gradually, I just kind of pivoted my business, so that I was working more with small business owners, entrepreneurs, rather than the bigger brands. And that’s pretty much, brought me up to today, that’s kind of like a whistle stop tour. So how do I help people now? Actually, my focus is a lot broader now. So I started out just helping people with press coverage. But actually, and for reasons we might be able to go into in this interview, actually I think, that our press coverage, is still being developed, and I think, actually, there’s a lot of other content you need to be putting out there, in order to promote your business effectively. So basically, these days, I now have a membership community, so that’s my main sort of source of income, where I help small business owners, and entrepreneurs, to promote themselves more effectively. And I help them, not just with getting press coverage, but also with content marketing, with email marketing, with social media marketing. So it’s help them promote and servicing the broader sense. I’ve also got a book, which is called Your Press Release is Breaking My Heart. And that’s, that’s–
– That’s sort of the best, the best book title ever. I was looking at your website, and your book, and I started giggling, when I saw the title, because probably one of these press release you received, probably was also written by me. Because I remember the first press release I was sending out, apart from the grammatical errors, that you could find. You know, being Italian, and my writing has not been my stronger suit. And on the other hand, on top of that, I didn’t have a clue, about what to write. As I remember, I used to write this like long emails, that would take me, you know, three hours just to write, for nothing. So probably, you maybe be reading one of my emails. Now you’re running this incredible community. I know that you have one of your next event coming soon, as well. When is the date?
– It’s called Media Influence Live, and it’s on July the 5th and 6th, in London. And this is an annual event, that I run, where I get together some key influencers from the traditional media. So from the likes of the Guardian, the BBC, RTV, and we’ve Grazia Magazine. But also, media influencers in the broader sense, so we’ve also got speakers, and we’ve got podcasters, YouTubers, and people who have kind of a knack on social media, as well, just to really reflect, you know, the change, in terms of media influence.
– And I think that’s a, so if you are, if you are in London, make sure you get down to that conference. We’ll put a link in the show notes. Now I think, is a nice bridge, because you mentioned two different realities here. There is the reality of the traditional media, and there is there reality of the social media. You mentioned before, you started saying that now you need to have both. Can you talk a bit more about that, so that we can have a clear picture about media now.
– Yeah. One of these, is when I help people in a broader sense. I used to just help people with getting press coverage. But what would happen, is people would come to me and they’d say, “I want you to help me, get into “Marie Claire magazine, or I want you to help me “to get onto the BBC”. And I’d be like, I can help with that, but actually, how else are your promoting yourself? Because you could get yourself really nice piece of coverage in Marie Claire magazine, but if you’re not creating content, for example, in a blog, or a vlog, or a podcast, if you’re not promoting yourself on social media, if you’re not doing email marketing, that’s the key one for me, then the reach, the impact of that piece of press coverage, is gonna be very minimal. And I think, a lot of people think, press coverage is great for publicity, it’s great for showing people, it’s almost like a stamp of approval, so it’s like, if the BBC think of what you got to say–
– I seen on BBC, Forbes, CNN and it looks great!
– Yeah! It’s great, it’s great for your credibility. But actually, when it comes to making sales… I do have some clients, and have got some really good examples of clients who have actually shifted units, of whatever it is that they make for sale, due to media coverage. But actually, what really helps you make sales, for me, in my experience, and this is with hundreds of clients, is email marketing. And that’s if you are broad station media marketing, it’s been by blogging. It can also be fueled by press, but for me, I think it’s a dangerous strategy, if your just going out thinking I’m just gonna go out and get this press coverage, I’m gonna be media famous, it’s gonna be amazing. You hear the odd person, that that happens to, but for most of us, press coverage should be just one in a number of things, that we should be doing to promote ourselves. I think that, because the media has changed so much, and the media used to just be, you know, magazines, newspapers, radio, TV. But because that, now we can make our own media, we don’t have to wait, to be picked. We can get really successful on YouTube, or a podcast, or… One of my speakers, actually, at Media Influence Live, is Emma Gadon, who has the Control Ought to Be podcast, which is really, really successful. And what I love about her, is she hasn’t sat around, waiting to be picked. She’s gone out, and created her own media. She created a really successful podcast, and that has enabled her to get some really fantastic traditional media opportunities. So she’s been featured in lots of magazines, radio, and TV. But actually, I think in her case, it was the podcast that fueled that traditional media. And I think, I’m really like passionate about this, ’cause I think that–
– They’ve been missing this, and they’re kind of, they’re seeing the kind of glossy magazines, or the TV, and the radio. But actually, missing the other parts of it. They’re like, oh, well that doesn’t matter, that’s not important. Actually, that stuff’s really important. And that will actually, no only help you fuel the traditional media stuff, but actually make it bigger for you. Because when I get a piece in the Guardian, or I’m in the BBC, I can get that out to so many more people, because I have my own audience, because I make my own media. And I’m really like passionate about kind of like, getting that message across to people, because I think it can make a huge difference to your business, and your credibility, and your authority, if you’re not just focusing on traditional practise.
– What is the starting point? Is is it kind of a chicken and the egg, situation? Or, should you start right now. Let’s say someone is starting out, right? Where would you recommend, to go straight for the traditional media, to get that numbers in, and allow them to grow their social media? Or, to start growing their social media first, so they can leverage easier the other way? What is, that works better, in your opinion?
– In my experience, you need to get your own content going first. So like I said, when I have an article in the Guardian, or I’m creating and article in the Guardian, I can get that influence in my email list of 15,000 people, if I want to. I can get it influenced with my Twitter following, which is 25,000. I can get it influenced with my Facebook group, which has got 12 and a half thousand people in it. So you just think of those numbers, alone, and I’ve got quite a modest audience, compared to some people out there. But I can, I can get that content forever, because I’ve already got an audience. If I had no audience whatsoever, I might be lucky, I might have like one article, or one TV appearance, that goes really mad, but for most of us, it’s like anything, it’s like… I think people often think, oh, if I get in a magazine, that will explode my business. Well, you now, you might get a few more inquiries, you might get a few more hits to your website. But actually, like anything in your business, you have to keep doing it. So what I would suggest, there’s a couple of things that you can do, which are absolutely free, and don’t take up much of your time. And I would suggest, if you’re interested in getting traditional media coverage, and you want to know where to put that, I always put it in the Bling, on your website. If you want to be able to have that Bling, that’s kind of like, I’ve seen it. There’s a few things that you can do, which don’t take that much time, and I’ve got some lovely blog posts, and things that I could share with you to help with that. So the first thing is, in the U.K. we have a hashtag called #journalrequests, and you get journalists from quite, hopefully, from all publications over in Twitter. And they will just be asking for help, with articles that they’re working on. And the thing about this, I’ve got a blog post, actually, which I’d love to share with you, to put in the show notes.
– I’ve got this 10-day PR Challenge, and I mention #journalrequests in there. And then, I’ll often get emails from people, and they say, “Well, I checked it out, and there was like “nothing on there for me”. And so, “You checked it once?”. And you’re like, you have to kind of go back more than once, and it’s like kind of, thinking that you’re gonna go on Twitter, and post one Tweet, or one Facebook post. It has to kind of be part of your daily routine, and you kind of do that, 10, 15 minutes a day. But most of my clients, have had really great coverage, just from checking in daily, to #journalrequests. The other thing as well, is that, that you have to think a little bit creatively, about it. So you’re a speaker, so you, you might just, this is kind of the attitude lots of people have. They go on #journalrequests, and they’re like, okay, right, there’s nothing about speaking. Well, you need to think a bit more creatively, and you need to think, okay, what else could I help with? So you might see something about Italian Cuisine, you might see something about working with StormTrade, or you might see something about, you know, something else that you know about. And a lot of people will say, “Well how could that “help my business?”. Or, you know, “That’s not what I’m doing in my media, “that’s not, you know”. But actually, that’s a great way for you to build a bridge with a journalist, who you then in the future, might need to go to, when the story much more kind of a view. And also, it might be, and, it’s still a point, like getting in front of people, and it’s still, you can still put that Bling on your website. So instead of being featured in the Guardian, or BBC, or wherever. So I would look out for opportunities, and see if there a long-term game? And I talk about this, in this blog post, that I can share with you, and has what you get the most out of it. The second thing is, there’s a real, there’s media inquiry services, media services that you can sign up to. I can give you a few examples, which literally, put journalists who are looking for help with stories, in touch with people who wanted to be featured in the media. And if you sign up to them, it’s as simple as, you get emails in your inbox, every single day, from journalists, who are saying, I need somebody’s quote on this, or that, or whatever. Again, you have to think more naturally, and creatively. And I’ve commented on all sorts of things. Like I’ve commented on, I don’t know, I mean, I’ve had to be the good press coverage, for example, in fact, I work in the shed with the most of my garden, and a journalist has been writing articles, about these antique sheds, and sheak sheds. There much more interesting than that, and then it reminds me about my business, and how–
– But at the same time, it gives exposure to you, and your brand.
– To a complete new audience, that otherwise would have not heard from you. So what kind of, so we said the hashtag #journalrequest on Twitter.
– And then we said, what are these kind of tools that you were mentioning?
– So these are tools, so you’re going to,
– Yeah, please.
– I’ll give you some examples. They’re called media inquiry services. In the U.K. we have ResponseSource, that’s and most of them have a free trial, you can sign up and try it out, for a few weeks, or a week. There’s also one called Gorkana. There’s also, I’m trying to think of some other ones we can get a free trial. There’s also ones that have actually got products, I think it’s Press Love, and there’s one called Ace Media, as well. And actually, if you have products, you can upload pictures of your products, and journalists will be searching. So there doing like a roundup of red shoes, and you make red shoes, or you do red sofas or something. That can be a great way, you’ve already got your photos there, and they find you. So that’s really good, as well. Help a Reporter Out is the big one in, internationally, and in the U.S, so that’s worth having a look at. And we also have, there’s one that’s kind of like escaping my memory–
– Is that SourceBottle?
– Yes, SourceBottle, okay.
– Yeah, and that’s, I think it started in Australia, but it was five weeks, that U.S. and U.K. request. And, other than this, you just have to be patient, and you just have to think a little bit creatively. I answer anything. If I think I’ve got an experience of it, or an opinion on it, I just think, brilliant, that’s a great way that I can connect with journalists. And the other really simple thing to do, is if you wanna connect with journalists, they’re all on Twitter. That’s where they hang out, in social media. Just like Twitter lists. If you’ve decided someone, that you’re gonna be in other than Western magazines, or something, if that’s a big development to you, you do some search on Twitter, you just make a Twitter list of all the key journalists. And just like you would do if you’re were gonna take a speaking engagement, start off by maybe just reTweeting your stuff, first of all, letting them know that you’re out there. Then maybe you might move onto, to responding to them, and then you could just go in for a pitch. You know, if you’ve got an idea, there’s no reason why you can’t just let them know in a Tweet. And also, following things up, BBC Radio of Ball, BBC Radio of Firefly, or wherever you are in the world, whatever your radio stations are. BBC Radio of Farfe, in the U.K., they always are putting stuff out for, they’re always putting out requests for people they want to talk to, for stories. So just following the right people and being hitched to the right people, is like anything you wanna do in your business. It doesn’t cost you any money, it just costs you a little bit of time, and a little bit of strategy, and shouldn’t be anything more than like 10-15 minutes a day. So that would be where I would get people to start, before you even think about writing press releases, or pictures. Press release, is mostly a waste of time, most journalists are quite happy with an email, or it’s called like But we can go into that more, if you want to. But does that give you a kind of idea of a, a starting point?
– Absolutely, and I think it was two years ago, I was listening to a podcast, and I don’t remember which show, but you were featured there and you mentioned Harrow Helper portal route, and SourceBottle. And you mentioned the hashtag #journalrequest. As I do, I listen to something, I say, oh, this is cool, let me test it out. I think that within the past two years, just listening from this interview that you had, I think I had about 45 articles published, between Help Reporters Out, and SourceBottle. Now I made it my life mission, every day to check it out. I was spending about two hours a day, focusing on that. But it helped me massively, to get my blog out there. And sometimes, you know, I was accepting, I was pitching for anything, some old blogs, bay blogs, big magazines, more magazine, I didn’t care. But one of my articles, through SourceBottle, got actually, on the front cover of a magazine in Australia. I think this is a brilliant metaphor, or a brilliant story, to say, if you’re… These platforms work, you gotta put a bit of work in it, and I haven’t explored Twitter much, so I’m still getting used to it, but that’s my next step, for this part. So first of all, is an opportune to thank you, in person, because we got the–
– I’d need to get you to send… I would like to get you to send me that bit, that you just said there.
– Yeah, yeah, absolutely! I record a video, I record a video for you, no problem. You don’t know what you don’t know. So I didn’t know those tools, were out there. Do you have, by any chance, like a blog post, where you list, ’cause I can put it in the show notes. If you have a blog post, where you list all the resources that you mentioned, so far, I’ll put it in the show notes, as well.
– Yeah, I’ve got one which is actually called How to Use Tools Like #journalrequest, to get press coverage, and I list all those, the examples that you might try. People are always asking me, actually, are there any in other countries? And I don’t know, I want people to tell me, because like if you’re listening when you’re in a country, and you discover one, like, yup, let me know. Because I’m pretty sure it’s not, it’s not just in the U.K. I’m sure that there are other journalists who, you know, it’s not a difficult thing to think of, shall I create a hashtag on Twitter?
– Finding something
– Yeah, but I think what you said was really, really important, it’s like, I get an email probably every day. I’ve got this 10-Day PR Challenge that I do, and this is where I take people, and give them a little task to do every day, and one of them is looking at #journalrequest, the other one is to get these inquiry services. I think I get an email every single day, from somebody who says, well, I checked them out, there’s nothing there for me. I’m like, “Come on, you’ve gotta stick with it, “you’ve gotta get out there, and you’ve gotta, “you’ve gotta like try more than once”. And I think this is the thing, that’s ending your business. I know you’re a really determined, and really tenacious person, and I think you do have to be quite determined, quite tenacious, and quite open minded, and say, okay, we’ll, at the moment, no. I always say to people, recommend friends. So using a request that isn’t for you, but you think oh, actually, that would really suit my friend, I think they could help with that. You know, that journalist will remember you, and so, it’s more than, you know, he helped me out with that story, and you can to them and say, “Hey, do you remember, I helped you out, “how about this?”.
– Absolutely. It’s really fascinating, because recently, I started being on the receiving end. I never saw myself as a journalist, even though I create content, I’m a content machine, content creation machine. Recently, I started content bidding for Forbes, and I’m receiving pitches from LinkedIn, my email, almost every week, for people willing to pay $500 to $1,000, to $2,000 to have their company featured in one of my articles. Sometimes I just been there, I generally don’t do it, because it’s not what I want to do, and also, is against the terms and conditions new Forbes to that, for the part of what I’m doing. So I want to keep my place there, and not to do something that, oh, now this guy gets on my radar, just for $1,000. I look at their website, and there is nothing other than an About Me page. I’m like, so how do you expect me, as a contributor, to write something nice about you, if you have nothing nice to show?
– This is another point, about why I think you need to start your content first. Because, as a journalist, I don’t do it very often, but I was working, I’ll still do some editing shifts on the Guardian, where it’s just like a favour. And I did a couple of weeks, a few weeks ago, and I’m actually doing a couple of weeks in June. And it’s quite good, because it keeps my hand in, it keeps me fresh, and it keeps me kind of on the ball with what life’s like, as a commissioned editor. But people will get in touch with me, and they offer to write things. And sometimes, I am in the position where I can commission somebody to write an opinion article. So the first thing I do, of course, is I go and look at them on Twitter. Or you can, and just need somebody to quote in a article, or just looking for ideas. The first thing I do, is I go on Twitter, go on LinkedIn, I go on the different social networks, and read their blogs. Are they actually creating content, about this topic, are they talking about the topic, that they say they’re an expert in? If I go, and I see there’s nothing, they’re not blogging about it, they’re not… I mean, it’s the same for people picture podcast interviews, as well as that. People find it’s really hard, when I say no to them, but it’s like, when I do a podcast interview with somebody, I wanna be able to… I’ve got my own podcast, by the way, it’s just called the Soulful PR podcast.
– Awesome point, ’cause guys, make sure you subscribe.
– As one that was on it.
– It’s amazing!
– But, you know, people will pitch me, and they’ll get offended, if I say no. And I say, but the thing is, is that if you were to come on my show, and you want to talk about, I don’t know, Instagram stories, or something like that, what I want to be able to do, is to present you as the Go To Person, so that after the interview’s finished the listeners can go and find your stuff, they can get more blog posts, if they want to. They can get a free bead, they can get a book, they can get… Again, it’s whatever is, but basically, I’m not sending people to a dead end. And I think that’s really important, as well as that, that you’re showing you’re content on your blog, under your social media, that you are the expert that you say are. That’s another reason, because journalists, the first thing they will do, is they look you up online, to see if, are you the expert, that you say you are? So I think that’s another really good reason, to start with content.
– So now, I have a question, because I know that and part of the things that I wanted to discuss, was that, how do we create content, that becomes shareable? Because it’s not just about creating content, that’s what I’ve realised recently, as well. I mean, I was falling into the trap before, of just creating, creating, and creating, and creating, and creating. But you know, some pieces were getting good traction, other pieces nothing. What in your experience, have you found, that is like a formula, or a strategy to create content that you know is the right type of content, and it’s gonna be shared?
– Well, my philosophy on this, is very, very simple. If you want to create engaging content, it’s not about you, basically. It’s about your audience, and it’s about what they want, what they need. Now, obviously, depending on who your audience is, and what they’re interested in. In my case, my audience just want me to solve their problems, they just want me to get them like really, really practical content, that’s gonna help them get better on Instagram, or find more clients, or create a lead mapping, that you might like. They want really practical, hands-on stuff–
– The beauty of running a show. I think the postman is gonna wait a bit, now. Let him ring, let’s keep talking!
– They always come, whenever you start doing your–
– They always come now! But he’s very insistent. Okay.
– They always do, yeah. And I think the delivery people are getting more insistent, and since I’ve been working at home, I think they really bang the door down, as well. But that’s for another time.
– That’s for another thing, okay, let’s wait, let’s wait, to get the postman wait outside.
– It could be great content, it’s not about you, that is the key thing, it isn’t about you, it’s about solving their problems. Now depending on what you do, and what your audience is, solving their problems could just be entertaining them, or making them laugh, or cheering them up, or whatever it is, that you do. I always try and think, when I’m creating content, how can I make this about my audience? But on the topic that I want to talk about. So I’ve kind of got, I turn things around. For example, I was promoting a podcast recently, and I interviewed a lady, who became an Instagram star at the age of 69, which is gonna be a quite, quite an interesting podcast episode. But I knew, that if I just posted that, a link to that podcast episode, and said, on LinkedIn I think it was, and here’s my latest podcast, I might get two likes. I might get a really little share from somebody. So as I just said, is I asked the question, I said, when do you think he’s retiring?. And I basically said, I don’t think I would retire, because I love working, and I can’t imagine not working. And I got a conversation going on, about retiring. And I said, “By the way, my latest podcast episode, “is an interview of a lady, who became “an Instagram star at 69”. A lot more engagement of my content, by turning it around, and making it about my audience. I’m just about to do a Facebook page, Growth Challenge with my community. And the three types of content, and I’m gonna try, and try and remember them now. So I think that you should create regularly. But the first one, is kind of like, where you’re sort of solving somebody’s problems. So it’s like, this is what I need right now. So that’s number one, so I need this practical advice right now, I need to know about this right now. And the other type of content is like, I know how that feels. So I recently, you might have seen this, I’ve been working up to running the London Marathon for like–
– I’ve seen, it was so, I was so granted.
– The weather was unusually hot, and I got heat exhaustion, and I had to pull out. But people have been following my journey, of this marathon. It hasn’t finished yet, by the way, there will be another instalment. For such a long time, me posting about what happened, actually, in my marathon, my personal got more engagement, with my business videos, than anything I post about business, in the last six months, or so. So if you can, if you can create content that connects with your audience. Like the kind of thing that you do post on our personal Facebook wall, I’ve just really messed up, you know, I’ve been training for this marathon for all this time, and I’ve got heat exhaustion, and I’m not too proud. People love that kind of content, where it’s, so I call that kind of, I know how that feels content, so it’s where people can emphasise. And the other type of content, I call it, I know about that, kind of content. That’s basically where people can, you ask them for their opinions. If I did a launch on offerings, instead of just saying, hey, I’ve got a new cause, or a new programme, or a new event. I’ll say, hey, looking at the logo today, for my new cause, or programme. Which do you like? Do you like A, or B? Or to ask just people, what they think about things. I’ve even done the silliest like polls on Twitter, like do you drink tea or coffee? Or do you put your milk in first, or whatever, when you’re making tea? That’s what people like doing business with people, and they like to find the person behind the brand. And I was looking at the reach, actually, of that, of my post about how I had to pull out of the marathon. It had like quadrupled the engagement, on my Facebook business page.
– On the business page.
– My business page.
– Not even the personal one, we are talking about the business one.
– Business page, four times the reach, of anything I’ve posted.
– No paid advertisement?
– No, and I think that is the thing, is that that’s, you know–
– I think it’s, you know, a connection, and personal. It’s not what people think. People think shareable content, is about viral content, or whatever, but actually, often it’s just about connecting with your audience. And we’ve all got different audiences. So, yeah, to summarise, the three types is, I need that right now, this is what I need right now, practical hands on stuff. The second type, is I know about that, I can give you my opinion. People love giving their opinions, and that’s the thing. And I’ve got a good example of that, actually. When I went out to social media marketing world recently, and I was, I got into my hotel room, everything was for sale, in the room. It was one of these hotels, where they tried to upsell you everything, and so, the cushion was for sale, like the slippers were for sale, there were snacks for sale.
– In the room?
– In the room, yeah.
– No way.
– I’d already sent my daughter a picture, of this dog, this cute little fluffy dog, I’d found in my hotel room. And then, I realised it had $25 around it’s neck.
– Too late!
– My attitude to content was right, this is brilliant! I know about that kind of content. So I snapped it, I then, I used a snap to adapt, to put the prices on it. I took a picture of everything, and then $25 on everything, to show that. And then I was, basically, what do you think about this? I kind of keep focusing on marketing, but at the same time, I kind of hate it, because now I have to go buy this dog. That got loads of engagement, because people love to give their opinions, they love to tell you what they think about things. And that’s the second type, I know about that. And the third type, is I know how it feels. I think you can’t go wrong, if you’re using those three types of content regularly, you can’t go wrong, you’re gonna get great engagement.
– And you use them, on your blogs, use them on social media, use them if you’re writing a LinkedIn article. You’re using them–
– In your marketing, yeah.
– In my marketing, if you’re doing a podcast, for example. Is all part of the relationship. When you talked about the marathon, I remember a post that I put out, was at, I think, the beginning of the year. Because I’d been working really hard, in the past two years, to go back into the professional basketball teams, here in the U.K. ‘Cause I used to play semi-pro, when I was 19, then I stopped for about 10 years. It was literally the past two years, just getting back to play at that level. I found a team, in my local area, and they were playing in the fourth division, at the national league, and my basketball coach used to play in the NBA. He was the first ever Brit, to play in the NBA. I was really excited to go there, I talked to the coach, and they said, okay, you’re coming, you’re in for the next game. I was pumped, I was excited, I was putting everywhere on social media, finally, I’m in, yes! The day of the game comes, unfortunately, the game was too tight, so the coach couldn’t take chances to put me in, and he had to put a better player. I didn’t get to play, the very first game, and I made this announcement public, I’m gonna play my first game! And inside, my heart was broken. And I remember–
– I’m not laughing at that, I’m just laughing at, it’s a great story, you know.
– Yeah, no, no, like. My heart was broken, so I put this post on social media, and said, aw, guys, unfortunately it happened, this. And I think I got about like 110 comments, or something like that. I was like, geez, man. First of all, I was, I felt blessed, because actually people cared, about me, and the shows that follow my journey. But then, also gives a great lesson, that people are following you as an individual. People are more interested–
– I must show you something.
– Yeah, yeah, please. I’m just gonna show you something, that kind of fits in to what we’re talking about. So this is, just picking up on the London Marathon thing, this is from one of my clients. So she sent me a Well Done, Well Done for dropping out card, pretty, that was first. She sent me this. And she sent me this little tin, which is a sort of carry tin. And this just arrived before.
– No way.
– And just like what you’re saying, like when you announce, that everybody was excited for you, you’re gonna go do that, and then… Like my Dad said to me the other day, he said, “Everybody loves a loser”, which is like.
– Like, thank you, Dad! Thanks, Dad, I appreciate it.
– I know what he means. What he was saying is that, ’cause I was saying, Oh, my God, you know, since I’ve shared this like, I’ve had to drop out, everybody’s engaged with me so much. But people, they, it’s like they can feel it, they can feel your disappointment, and they feel bad for you and they wanna help you feel better. And that’s better than any business pitch you could ever make, you know.
– Yeah, absolutely.
– You’re kind of thinking, good audience.
– Absolutely. And the other thing, is that it needs to be honest and genuine, don’t fabricate it, because you’ll find that people actually constant fabricate this kind of post, because they know it gets so much engagement. People can see through it. Don’t fabricate it, because you might like get away once, twice, but then, you’ve lost your entire reputation with your audience. Don’t do that, be honest. Like in anything, honesty always pays off.
– I want to know that, I want to know now, what happened with the basketball that you started. We can’t go on without, I need to know the next bit.
– I actually got in, got in the team, I played the next game, and at every game I was in, I played about six games, and every game, I scored two points. So I always made a bucket, every single game, I had my two points. You know, I wasn’t playing much, I generally played over a 12 minutes game. No, not here, not 12 minutes game, sorry. A 40 minutes game, I was going to play two minutes, three minutes, if it was like, hew, it was a good day. So I always managed to score, and I was happy, the coach was happy. It came out, and now I’m going to the same team, and then next year. Which I’m really excited. We missed the playoff, unfortunately, we were like fifth, instead of fourth, so that’s, we could have gone third division. Anyway. Last round of questions, which is, starting the session, which is lifting the veil. In this part, I wanna ask you, what is one thing that you’re doing in your business right now, that is working incredibly well, that other people should know about?
– Okay, so something that we’re doing, which is working really well for all of our launches, for my membership, going to my live events, my causes, is, I call them Open Days. I used to do a lot of webinars, where I would, you know, if I had a launch coming up with a certain event, or my membership or cause, and we’d do a webinar, and that would sell. Ah, it was doing okay. You know, they always made sales, and you know, it did okay. But then I had this idea, with my membership, I just thought why is it, that people don’t join membership communities? I think the main reason, is they don’t really understand sometimes what a membership committee is, they can’t see the resources, then can’t meet the other members, because it’s online and that. So how could I help with that, how could I help them to make a decision, and help them to be more informed? So I came up with this idea, I thought, what’d you do when you, you know, if I need a school for your child, you go to an open day, don’t you?
– Yup, yup.
– You go around.
– And you get shown around, by the schools, if you do this right, they get the pupils to show you around, they get the most polite, best pupils to show you around. And you can ask them the questions, and So I started running open days, for my memberships. Instead of having a webinar, I would just say, come on, we’ll show you in the back of the website, we’ll show you what materials look like, and also, I’ll bring on some of my current members, just to tell you about it, and what kind of wins they’ve had, what it is that you can meet them, generally. I’ve done this for my membership quite consistently, and it converts so well, ’cause it’s just like it just clicks with people.
– I can see it. I never heard about this, this is awesome!
– Yeah, and I call it the Open Day. I do an Open Day for everything now. So if my live event, that I’ve got coming up, and we’ve just finished the Early Bird tickets, and now we’re kind of going onto the, the kind of next round of tickets, for Super Early Bird. We do it, you know, the email marketing, we do little bit of book secrets. We’ll go back to people who haven’t bought, and say, I hope you don’t mind me asking, but can you tell me why you didn’t buy? So we can get more than an understanding. And this time we said to them, would you be interested in your kind of Open Day, type of thing? Would you be interested, in just coming onto the call with me, so you can ask me any questions about the event. Of course, I can’t bring my speakers on, I wish I could. I might be able to get, maybe I might be able to twist somebody’s arm, to come and do it. But I can certainly bring pass delegates, in order to talk about their experience, and whatever. So I’m gonna do that, for the event. in order to do that, So it’s kind of an open day. And using this up behind the scenes, I think sometimes people don’t buy, just ’cause they don’t they can’t see it, and they can’t feel it. And that’s probably the closest thing that you can do. So that’s working really well, and it’s something that we’re kind of replicating.
– I like it. I really like it. I see this becoming a thing.
– I really, I really like that, yeah. And how long do you run these Open Days? Is it like all day, on the call, and people drop in? Or is it a specific one hour, two hour window, where people can come in? How does it work?
– We tend to have one or two hour window, we record it, and we send out the, we send out the recording. And what’s interesting, actually, over Christmas, I don’t, wanna say it was Christmas, and my family probably we’re not being very keen on me doing an Open Day like in between Christmas and New Years. But that was the best time, for people to join my membership, because between Christmas and New Year, you get the presents out of the way, they have visit for a few days, and they’re like, oh, actually, I don’t, I don’t wanna mess up again, next year, you know, I don’t wanna get a whole other year where I feel like I haven’t, you know, built an audience, and all this other stuff. So it’s a really great time for me, to get new members in, because people are sort of thinking that way, but I don’t really kind of wanna do a live. So we just sent out a recording, of our Open Day, and just had it as part of a sequence. And that converse did really, really well. And the other thing that we’ve been doing, as well, is challenges, so the last, we had a group challenge, me and my marketing. I got some interesting feedback, actually, from people who did join a membership. And they said that was what sold it to them, because I was in the group, actually, helping people, with their, they were creating a lead map, and so, their very first lead map, and for the email marketing, and was giving them personal feedback. And they were saying, it’s getting this whole thing, I could see the benefit, ’cause I could see how we were working with people, I could see how you were working with me, I could see the feedback. You’re just like, perks, essential perks. So I’m really into this kind of behind the scenes, get people as close as you can. Because it is hard, isn’t it? When you’re trying put calls with programme. You don’t need a–
– Particularly, if you’re paying a recurring subscription. I mean, they’re my people, they’ve already bought subscriptions before, they’ve been burned, because then the content wasn’t great, and it was just like, kind of left on their own with a bunch of three hours long, pre-recorded videos.
– I think it’s brilliant! I absolutely love it! Thank you, for sharing. Thank you, for sharing.
– That’s okay.
– I’m sure that guys, so if you are launching your membership, if you’re, that’s an idea to test. That’s an idea to test. If you’re launching an event, that’s an idea to test, because that’s how we are, in this industry. We are testing, we are see if it works. It might work for Janet, it might not work for you. It might work for Janet, and it might work for you, as well. Who knows? Gonna test out, test it out, and then see. Now, Janet, it’s time to wrap up. I absolutely love this interview. What is, I know that you have also giveaways, that there are ways for people to get in touch with you. So how can people get the most of all your content?
– Okay, so the best place to find me, is on my website, which is janetmurray.k.uk. And I always have to vote, actually a Facebook group, which has about 12 and half thousand members in it. I’m in there every day, answering members questions, and I’m helping them out, and we have 30 like conversations going on, I broughtin there, quite often. That is quite a good place to start, because you can kind of get the sense of the community, and me, and my resources, but also I’ve got a blog, and I’ve got the podcast, Soulful PR podcast, where the name maybe will be changing soon, so just justwhere these podcasts. And I’ve also got, and I can share this in the show notes, a lot of people start on my 10-Day PR Challenge, and this is what I mentioned before, and I can certainly share a link for you, you know, especially you’ve got this show, for that challenge. I take people through step-by-step, how they can start to get traditional media coverage, for also things like, pictures of the guests, as they interview your podcasts, or things like that. So how they can kind of build their media influence. And there’s a lot of tasks to do everyday, and it’s not like I’m blowing my own trumpet, but when I think about the things that I do, that I get the best feedback for this particular challenge, is the one that people say Wow, that’s really great. I’ve got really great results with that, and get them to just testimonies from people, who say, Wow, I’m actually, you know–
– It works!
– Like you.
– It’s not just like one of these free challenges, and you join, and you get nothing. It’s actually something that you’re getting permentable action steps, and and then you actually, have more chances to get on media. So, Janet, thank you, very much. I really appreciate this interview. Loved every single minute, and it was full of value bombs, completely loved it. Guys, make sure that, ladies and gentlemen, you’re listening, you’re watching, there is going to be the links in the show notes, of the resources, that we talked about, on the show. You can connect with Janet there. I’m gonna put the links of her Facebook Group, of her website, so you can be in touch with her. Because if you want to get on media, I’ve been following Janet for a few years now, and there is no one better than her, to follow, if you want to get media coverage, which is crucial! Like you can’t really grow your business without getting your audience to see you. Make sure you follow her. Janet, thank you, very much, really appreciate interview.
– Thanks, for having me.
– And also, if you haven’t subscribed to the podcast, make sure that you subscribe right now! What are you waiting for! You cannot miss another episode. And let me know, leave us a review, let me know what did you love the most, about the show. And up until next time, remember that together we grow exponentially. Bye, for now.