Welcome to episode #127 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview Angela De Souza
Hi, I am Angela and I am an entrepreneur! My brain is always whizzing with great ideas often to the frustration of those closest to me. My biggest passion is my husband, four beautiful children, one grandchild and three cats and I love to help people build their businesses.
In this episode we talk about
- How to grow and scale your business
- What to automate and when
- The exact automation sequence Angela uses to grow her organisation
Connect with Angela De Souza
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– Explode Your Expert Business Show. Today I am here with the one and only Angela De Souza. How you doing Angela?
– [Angela] Hi, hi, its great to be here.
– It’s awesome to have you here too. I’m really excited about the show, Angela, and I’m really excited, because today we are going to be talking about how you did it in your pyjama. And I was like oh my God. What is this about? I need to interview Angela and in particular, because she did incredible things. And now Angela, can you please share a bit more about your journey. Where did you start? What’s your story?
– I started by accident. So I didn’t intend to set up a business at all, because my very first business had failed, and I had decided that I wasn’t a business woman, and so I had disregarded myself in the business world and got on with other things that didn’t involve money at all. And so I believe that’s when you have something inside of you, it’s gonna keep trying to come out. It comes natural to you, and it’s gonna keep trying to come out, and you can keep suppressing it, but it’s gonna keep trying to come out. And what’s inside of me is the desire to connect people and to help bring out there potential. And I find myself doing that in various capacities along the way. And one of them started when I wanted to connect business women and help them to bring out their potential in business. And so I very much set it up by accident. I didn’t say I’m gonna start a business. Was more a case of, oh, and why don’t we also connect business people? Do you know what I mean?
– [Interviewer] Absolutely.
– So and from there, we started our Woman’s Business Club monthly networking events, and that grew to training events, and that grew to a franchise, and that was phenomenal how I went from accidentally setting up a networking event to suddenly realising that the model I’d set up was franchisable, and it was valuable to the business community.
– [Interviewer] What was the moment that made you realise that, oh, I need to, this can become a franchise?
– I think again it’s one of those things that I tend to do naturally is I grow things. I like to grow things. And so for me, I’m always looking at ways to grow things if it’s planting the garden or if it’s a business or, you know, a career. And so for me, a franchise was, okay this is the way I can take what I’ve started and grow it. It didn’t feel like a real business for me until the first franchise sold, and I saw real money in my bank account. That’s when I thought this is real. This is becoming a real business.
– And while you were setting up your franchise, while you were setting up your business, even at the beginning, how was your journey? Was it easy, like it came the idea, oh my God, I want to connect entrepreneurs, I’m going to create networking events, great. And then suddenly people started signing up like crazy, and then they wanted to become members immediately. Is that what happened?
– No, definitely not. And the first event was amazing, and I love it, and I realised that that’s definitely something I’m meant to do. But business, to me, is like a rollercoaster. It’s a permanent rollercoaster where you have highs and you have lows. And so for me, setting up and running a business, it’s been a series of days when I love it and series of days when I hate it. And it’s like a combination of that permanently. There are days when everything goes right, and members sign up, testimonials, and it’s wonderful, and I think this is why I do it. And then there are days when I’m just like kill me now, I hate it, I don’t wanna do this ever again. And it’s very extreme, but it’s the reality of business.
– It’s like why am I doing this, why, why, why did I do this to myself?
– [Angela] Exactly.
– Why can’t I go back to a job?
– Exactly, jobs are wonderful things.
– You know what? I think that everyone is really interesting when someone is in job they don’t like. Ah, screw the nine to five.
– [Angela] Yes.
– I don’t wanna work in job anymore. Then they decided to run their business. The first six months is fine. After six months it’s like, why did I quit? It’s like I miss my job.
– [Angela] I know, jobs are wonderful.
– Absolutely. But then something kept you going. Something made you say no, I want to keep doing this, I want to do more. So what was your personal reason why you decided to say, I’m not going to settle? Even if it’s hard, I’m willing to keep going.
– I think there are two things. The first thing is every time I get a testimonial, and I realise that I’m making a difference, then I think it’s worth it, because I’m doing something that’s helping somebody else. And then the second reason is, I understand that to do anything great takes a long time. And so I’ve always set my mind to 20 years. That’s been my number. And I know that if I quit after five years, then I have never given myself the chance to realise my full potential. And if I start something else now, if I quit what I’m doing and start something else, then I’m way back to day one of my 20 years.
– Yeah, absolutely. I love what you said about the 20 years. A lot of people, they just say, oh no I need to make it in two years. I need to make it in one year. Generally it’s 12 months. Oh in 12 months, I’m going to create this. But 12 months is not a really huge amount of time when you’re talking about all the things that you can create in your business. Okay Angela, so now we talked about, we know you better right now. We know about your why, what made you keep going. We talked about the incredible company, the incredible networking event and franchise that you have created. Now it’s time to share your expertise. It’s time to share the things that we are here today, and we’re talking about systemization. We are talking about business systems, and the title of the interview is very weird. It’s like How I Did it in my Pyjama. And I was like what the heck does it mean? So can you please help me clarify, and help all of us listening here clarify, what the heck does your pyjama have to deal with business systems? Please.
-Okay. So the pyjama side of it is because in the midst of running a business, I did what most business owners do, and I overworked, and I got myself into a state of complete burnout, because I was doing everything all of the time. And that often happens in startups. You have to do the bookkeeping, you have to do the website, you have to do make the tea, you have to do everything, and then still find time to serve your clients and run the business. And so I found myself in that position where I was doing everything, I was working ridiculous hours, and I got burnt out. I just got completely burnt out, and I got depressed, and I found myself having to preserve energy to just get through the day. And so things like getting dressed, out of my pyjamas, and brushing my hair, and brushing my teeth, they all took energy. So in order to preserve energy, I just worked in my pyjamas. Some days I stayed in bed, I worked in my pyjamas, and that’s how I got through a very difficult time of burnout and depression by just preserving energy. But it was in that time of thinking I don’t want to quit, because I had every right to say I’ve made myself unwell, I need to stop and get better. But I realised I don’t want to quit, I want to find a better way of doing things. And so I realised that I needed to systemize and automate my business. And what that has afforded me now, it means I can go away on holiday and come back, and my business is still working and growing, and it’s still bringing income in. It means that I can afford to take a day off if I need to. If I do feel a bit overworked, I can take the day off and go have coffee with my girlfriends or go for a walk, and the business will still run seamlessly, nothing’s change. And so, and also, in order to grow a national franchise, which is what I’m doing, there comes a point where you hit a wall, and you can’t physically do anymore yourself, so you can’t grow. So a system and when you automate and systemize your business, you’re able to grow exponentially. You can just keep growing, because it’s the system that you’re managing. You’re not in there doing the work yourself, but you’re just overseeing a system. Now obviously the system we have in place now is fantastic, but there’s always room for improvement. So my role now is the system builder. I’m always working on the system.
– So it’s really fascinating. This is really fascinating, because as you said, you arrive to a point to where you can’t do everything by yourself. You arrive to a point where you need to have a system that allows your business to grow exponentially, that is scalable.
– [Angela] Yes.
– Otherwise, you will always hit a wall.
– [Angela] Hit a wall, yes.
– You cannot be everywhere. And I think that in this industry where we are talking about experts, speakers, training, and it’s an industry which is based on the personal brand, and there is this myth that you got to do everything.
– [Angela] Absolutely.
– There is this myth that the business can’t keep working without you. But I think that even if you’re working, and if your business is based on your personal brand, you can create a system. So I have now a question for you.
– [Angela] Absolutely.
– Which is how do you transition? Let’s say someone is there which is running their business, is making money. They are working, but they’re still working really hard. What is the first step to create those system to allow you more freedom and being able to grow your business faster?
– I think the first step is to record and document everything you’re doing. I think it’s really important that whether you intend to franchise or not, you treat your business like a franchise. So the first thing to do is to start to write down and record what you’re doing, and that has two purposes. First of all, it starts to give you the data you need to create the system. But second of all, it helps you realise where you’re wasting time, where you’re doing unnecessary things. So I think any business, I always encourage startups to start by documenting everything you do, because then you won’t have to come back to it one day when your business is grown and then start the whole process. So if you start your business with a system in mind, then you can grow no matter how far ahead you are in the journey.
– So you start your business with the systems in mind. But a lot of people, they are saying well, that’s easier said than done. I mean, you can, I’m not a system person. So for example, someone like me would say, well I’m not a system person, and I’m not thinking about system. And how do I document it? What are some ways, what are the best ways to document it?
– So you can break it up into departments. So you can say, okay my business. Now you can do this from a one man band from startup point, but it’s the way you think about things that matters. There’s not necessarily who’s in your team at that time, because it’s just you, but it’s the way you’re thinking about it. So if you think of your business as this is a big company with departments. I have a finance department, I have this marketing department, I have a sales department, admin department, HR department, and whatever. You start your business that way. Or if you’ve been in business for a few years, you start working in that way, and you start allocating tasks to departments, and you start to keep documents of processes according to departments. Then the beauty of that is when you’re at the place where you can start getting staff in, or you can start outsourcing, you’ve already clearly defined this is finance, I need to find a finance person. And then the other beauty of that is that you can start to see which areas you neglect the most, and those are obviously the ones that you don’t like. So the very first thing that you outsource are the things that you don’t like doing, because you want somebody better than you coming into your business and doing a fantastic job with the things that you actually don’t like doing. And sometimes, I’ve mentioned this to so many business owners, you hold onto everything, and you’re too scared to take it
– Because either you’re scared of the financial risk. And in that case, I say to people, how much is it costing you to do it when you could be doing something you love and are good at? How much are you actually spending on doing the thing that you hate? It probably takes you ten times longer. And if you outsource that thing, or you got a staff member in, that money spent, you’d actually make it up, because you’ve freed up your time to do the thing that you love, and then your business is more likely to grow if you’re doing the things that you love doing. So if you start with any business, any size, start thinking in departments. Start thinking of the different areas, and then start documenting your processes. So you’ve changed your thinking, but then when you document your processes, again, you can streamline your processes. I discovered something. It’s a very simple example, but I just, two years ago, my keyword for the year was automation. I wanted to automate. I didn’t want to do anything that I didn’t have to do. So automation was my goal. And it’s a very simple thing, but on my website, I have my books, ’cause I’ve written a few books, and the process was that a buyer would come to my website, they would add to cart, they would checkout. I would then receive the order. I would then order the book, because I was, what’s it called, print on demand.
– [Interviewer] Yep.
– I would order the book, get the book, pay the postage for the order, repackage the book, post it out, and pay the postage, and that was the process. And because I was focused on automation, I thought this is ridiculous. All I’m gonna do is put the Amazon link on my website. Now
– Done, simple.
– [Angela] Nothing. I have eliminated the entire process.
– You know sometimes it is interesting to see how such a small thing can make a huge different. ‘Cause when people think about automation, they think about or systems, they think about this massive task, because it can be.
– [Angela] It can be, yes.
– For some areas of your business, can be a huge work. It might take you a month just to automate or systemize one area of the business.
– [Angela] Yeah.
– But then one, when it’s done it’s done. And two is sometimes, some things that you think in your mind it would take such a big thing, are so frustrating, just might be one button or one integration, or one piece of system that you put in place. Boom, 10 minutes, things are sold, completed.
– So but once you’re thinking in that way, like when I was thinking that way, I eliminated an entire process for people to buy my books. But then that started leading me to other areas where I suddenly took away an entire staff member because of automation. I discovered Zapier. I had a staff member.
– Aw, I love Zapier. We love Zapier, woo hoo.
– I had a staff member coming in part-time that would process my data, and put it into my database, and do all of the processes. And then I discovered Zapier, and I didn’t need an entire person to do all of this admin, because between Zapier and Infusionsoft, I’ve automated.
– Can you tell, can you tell, yeah absolutely awesome.
– Can you tell a bit more about what is Zapier for our listeners that don’t know what it is.
– So Zapier will connect, it can connect loads of things, but for example, it can connect your Google spreadsheet to your CRMS so that the data is automatically transferred from your Google spreadsheet to your CRM. In my case, it connect, you can collect your Facebook advert leads and automatically put it into your CRM. You can do so much with it. I’m only familiar with it from what it can put into my CRM. So I’ve eliminated a person manually inputting data to just saying, well I’ve got this signup form on Google Sheets, I’ve got this Facebook advert going out that collects leads, I’ve got Event Brite bookings coming in. All of those processes were done manually. Event Brite bookings came in, a person then put them into the CRM. You know, a Facebook lead would come in, and a person would put it into CRM.
– I used to do exactly the same.
– Zapier does it all, it’s wonderful.
– Absolutely. We love Zapier.
-And as soon as it goes into the CRM, it gets tagged, and then there’s another series of automation that gets people to the point where they need the personal touch. So all of that work is now done automatically until my CRM will then trigger a phone call. It will log a phone call with the sales team, for example, or with customer service. The whole thing’s automated, and I just love it, it’s amazing.
– Oh my God. I’m so excited about this, because yes, it’s important. It’s crucial automation. So now before we move on to the next part of the interview where you lift the veil about what’s working really well in your business andwell, I want to ask you what systems do you do and do you use to automate, because that’s what we started talking about. You mentioned Zapier. You mentioned Infusionsoft as a CRM system. What else, is there anything else that you use that you find really useful that other, that our listeners and myself included, should use?
– I think my system is very simple in that it won’t work unless you start with the correct foundation. So in my case, it’s about creating lead magnets, so that we’re attracting our ideal client to us. So we have to go back a step. Who’s our ideal client? So the very beginning, the very foundation of our system, is actually who are they, what is their pain, and how are we able to serve their pain? And that’s the foundation. And without a good solid foundation, automation’s just gonna automate, it can automate, but it’s automating the wrong thing.
– [Interviewer] Absolutely.
– So we started the foundation. Who’s our ideal client, what are their pain points, and how can we serve them? And then so we put what we call lead magnets out there. We put it out on social media, we put in out on email, and then we’re attracting our ideal clients into our system. And then we automate the first part of the system. So I think I jumped ahead in your interview, sorry.
– [Interviewer] That’s fine, that’s fine. Keep going, we’re on a roll.
– Yeah so, it’s what I alluded to earlier, that we have all these places where our lead magnets are out there generating leads, but they come pre-qualified, they come self-selected, they’re the right leads. And then they go into that come into Facebook, or that come into LinkedIn, or that come into through an online landing page, or a web form, or whatever. So there’s all these various different places they come in. But then, they all go to the same place. They all go through Zapier into Infusionsoft, and then in Infusionsoft, I can become addicted to Infusionsoft, ’cause I’m always finding new ways to automate. So I’m like, oh my goodness, now I can do this. And it’s not that it’s, and the automation should never replace the customer service and the personal touch, but there’s a lot of information, or there’s a lot of the customer experience that doesn’t need a person, and to get them to that point where they need the person. And so my team are not drained by processing tonnes and tonnes of customer inquiries. Rather they’re getting the right sort of leads directed to them at the right point in the customer journey. So when the customer’s ready, we’ve got somebody on the phone that’s gonna talk to them and discuss what they need. However, if they’re just browsing, or if they’re just curious, then the automation’s gonna take care of them. And so it’s fantastic, and I can go away, I can walk out of my office, and go out for the day, come back, and the business is still growing, because all this automation is going on.
– Alright, now you’ve got me curious. Give me an example of a campaign that you have to get someone. So if you think about the process of a campaign to get someone from a lead to that hole. What are the different steps that people can say, okay, well if I need to automate, let me see, let me look at the different steps of the customer journey, what Angela does.
– Okay, I’m gonna be giving you my secrets now.
– Well that’s what we’re looking for. That’s what we’re looking for, the secrets. That’s why you guys should listen to this show is because they’re awesome. We’re giving you the secret of the secret of the secret.
– Yeah I’m giving you all my good stuff now. So we’ve got two processes. We’ve got the marketing process, and then we’ve got the sales process. So the marketing process is where we put out our lead magnets and we attract people. But at the Woman’s Business Club, our entry point is come and have lunch with us. So we want to make sure that everybody comes to one of our clubs and has lunch with us, so that we can then take everything offline and build a proper personal relationship. Now that triggers one of our automation processes in Infusionsoft. The way you book a lunch is you go into Event Brite, and you book your lunch, and Event Brite through Zapier will then pop them into Infusionsoft, and that will trigger what we call touch. So we’ve got 12 touch points before they get to membership sale, and then they either have to make a decision yes or no. So Infusionsoft, once they’ve gone into Infusionsoft, after they’ve attended the event, Infusionsoft will automatically send them an email. And it’s not a sales email, it’s just a how did you enjoy the event. May we have your postal address, because we’re glad to send you something in the post. Now that then triggers 12, so that was 12 touch two. That will trigger 12 touch three, which is a postcard that we post out to people who’ve attended an event. And the postcard, you can sync, we use Docmail.
– Mm-hmm, Docmail.
– [Angela] D-O-C Docmail.
– Okay, I’m writing down so I can put in the show notes. Thank you.
-So Docmail is fantastic way of sending out postcards, or letters, or anything. You can sync it with your Infusionsoft so it’s done automatically. So, you can get your Infusionsoft to automatically send out your letters in a certain point in your automation, or send out postcards. What we do is we send out a postcard with an inspirational graphic on the front, a personal letter on the back saying, we just wanted to check in with you and make sure you’re having a great week et cetera et cetera. So it’s not, again, it’s not a sales postcard, but it’s just a touch point. We’re just letting them know that we’re thinking of them, here’s some inspiration for the week, and we hope to see you at the next lunch. So our automation aim is to get them to lunch number two, because they can only visit twice before they have to make a decision.
– So they’ve had the touch point one, which is the event, touch point two, which is the followup email, just to touch base and to get their postal address. Touch point three is their postcard that goes out, and then touch point four would be a social media message. So we try to find which platform they’re most active on, and that’s when a person, Infusionsoft will then trigger an action to one of the team who will then add the personal touch, and they will have to personally engage on social media. But we try to find out their favourite social media platform, and we engage. The hope then is that they will book in to touch point five, which is the second lunch.
– So we’ve done all of this, and the only thing that hasn’t been automated is the social media. That’s been a personal message.
– Then after touch point five, we move to touch point six, which is another email, automated email going Infusionsoft, at which point they’re given a direct phone number to one of our team, and they’re asked when we may phone them. So it’s a direct quest to have a phone call, at which point, I’ve lost count now, touch point seven.
– Seven, yep.
– That will be, Infusionsoft will create a task for one of the team, the sales team, to get in touch and have a phone call. And then once they’ve had the phone call, they’ll log the conversation, you know, the general gist of the conversation into Infusionsoft, and then it will trigger eight, which will be a social media message, and then nine will be your event invitation. No, have a lost track now? Yeah.
– Yeah. Nine, okay.
– And then we get a final touch point, which is you have to make a decision now, because we are a membership organisation. You’ve experienced two lunches. You’ve experienced, you know, you’ve heard from our team, we’ve connected with you on social media. I hope you can see the value. Would you like to join us as a member? So they could have joined as a member at any of those touchpoints, but touchpoint 10, we then tag in Infusionsoft closed won or closed lost. And then if they go into closed won, which means they’ve joined a member, so won as in W-O-N, that will trigger a new member automation in Infusionsoft. So then they go into the next thing, which is the new members, and that’s nurturing for new members, educating them about how to get the most of their membership. It’s all the different things that they can get, and that triggers a whole new automation process. Where if it’s touch 12 lost, then it’s gonna trigger maybe a followup email in three months time, depending on why they weren’t ready. ‘Cause many times, and our potential members are ready, they want what we have to offer, but it’s not no, it’s not now, or not yet, or I first have to let my children settle into school.
– Yep, yep.
– You know what I mean? So it’s not no. So when we say 12, you know, the final touchpoint is lost, it’s not no, it’s just there’s a reason why they’re not ready. ‘Cause we know we can offer value. There’s no ways they don’t want us. They just have to figure out when it’s right for them and if we can help them with their pain points. Maybe they don’t have any at that time, in which case we’re not relevant. And we don’t wanna push something on them that they don’t want.
– I have to say, I let you go on a spring line. You were amazing.
– [Angela] Sorry.
– No no no apologies. That was on of the most valuable pieces of strategy that we have ever had in the history of our podcast.
– [Angela] Nice.
– Over 110, by the time we release this one, will 120 episodes, and this has been pure gold, in particular because.
– I’m gonna quote you on that.
– But I’m gonna quote me, say Simone Vicenzi from Gtex, that was said amazing interviews, because there is something quite a bit powerful I want to share. I run more than 200 events a year, so I know how much work and how much many work can be done, can be avoided, with automation. And the sequence that you shared, for someone who is running events, is pure gold. This is worth thousands, and thousands, and thousands of pounds of mentoring, online courses, on the sequence. So thank you very much for sharing it freely here on the show, because it’s been, I think, eye opening for a lot of people of what it takes to create a great event, to create a great customer experience, and also shows how in depth, how much experience you have, how in depth you are thinking about all the different stages of the customer to make sure that they buy at the right time.
– [Angela] Yes.
– So absolutely love that. Now it’s time to wrap up in this interview, and before we wrap up, I wanna share with you what kinda project, I wanna ask you, what kinda projects are you working on at the moment? What are you excited about that is coming up in your business?
– Well it’s in the future, it’s in December, but every year, we run a national conference for business women called the Maximise Conference, and we work on it all year. It’s one day that takes us all year to work on. And so we’ve just started inviting people to come on board as award sponsors, and as sponsors for the event, to sign up as exhibitors. We have four speaker slots. I mean, just opening that up, inviting people to apply for speaker slots. And so it’s all really happening now. And yeah, it’s very simple. Maximize.live is the website, and that’s kind of the highlight of our year. It’s when all the clubs from across the country come together in one place. And of course, absolutely anybody else is welcome as well. You don’t have to be a member to come along. So we kind of attract business men and women from across the country to that event on the 5th of December. So we’re really excited about that.
– So there is the event on the 5th of December. Very likely I’m going to be there.
– [Angela] Definitely.
– And we’re already talking about sponsorship in our first call that we had.
– [Angela] Definitely.
– So I’m already speaking at one of your lunches, a couple of your lunches actually that are coming soon. So if someone wants to explore also becoming a member or attending one of your first lunches, now they know the secrets, they know what they’re going to go through. So they know they’re going to be very well taken care of. Where can they find more information about booking their lunch?
– It’s very easy. Everything on the website homepage points you to a lunch. So it’s womansbusiness.club. You go on there, and you’ll have a button straight away, book a lunch or find out more about the club. And so it’s on the homepage. Easy to find.
– Brilliant, fantastic. Well it’s been an incredible incredible incredible incredible interview Angela. I loved every single minute of the show that we shared together and these interviews that you have done. In particular, looking at the exploration and the reality that you gave at the beginning when you talked about those moments where you don’t have much energy, that just to keep going to work you’re doing it from your pyjamas, so that you can save this moment and this energy that you have to grow your business, and looking at where you arrive now creating this incredible franchise, the conferences, the lunches, all the systemization. I commend you for all that work that you have done.
– [Angela] Thank you.
– So guys.
– [Angela] I’m not wearing my pyjamas today, I got dressed.
– You got dressed, you got dressed today. We can see that, we can see that, for those of you that are watching the video on YouTube. If you’re just listening on the podcast then, she has a lovely blue sweater. While if you are watching on YouTube, you can definitely see that she’s not dressed in a pyjama right now. And now thank you very much Angela. Make sure that you guys connect with her and book a lunch, see what it is about. And if you’re wanting to sponsor or become a speaker for the conference that she runs in December, make sure you get in touch. All the links are going to be in the show notes. So check the show notes. All the links are going to be there. Angela, once again, thank you very much.
– Thank you for having me.
– And ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. Make sure that you subscribe to the podcast right now. It’s important, you got to do it now. The button is calling you, so click the button, and let me know what did you enjoy the most about this interview. What did you enjoy the most, and leave us a review, ’cause that’s the two ways where you can help us out to grow this show. Subscribe and leave us a review and so we can keep interviewing incredible people like we did today with Angela. Thank you very much, and remember that together we grow exponentially. See you next time, ciao.