Welcome to episode #136 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview Rob Wilson
Award-winning writer and speaker-humorist, Robert Evans Wilson, Jr. works with companies that want to be more competitive, and with people who want to think like innovators. Rob is the author of the internationally syndicated column on achievement, innovation, and leadership: The Un-Comfort Zone. He’s also the author of four books.
In this episode, we talk about
- Three Occasions You’re Likely to be Creative;
- Three characteristics of Innovators;
- How to Live the Innovative Lifestyle
Connect with Rob Wilson
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– Hello ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Explode Your Expert. On the show today, I’m here with the one and only Robert Evans Wilson Jr. How are you doing, Robert?
– I am well, Simone, and it’s good to be on your show. Thank you for inviting me.
– Real excited. Today is all about innovation. Today, let’s talk about innovation, innovation of our business, innovation of our life. But before we get started, Rob, can you tell us, how did you get involved in this field?
– Well, my background is as a writer. I’ve been writing pretty much all my life. I knew as early as third grade that I wanted to be a writer when I grew up. And eventually got into the field. Tried to get fiction published early on and couldn’t do that, So I went into any other way I could make a living writing. I wrote for newspapers, magazines. And then I got into advertising. And that just paid a lot better than the others. And so there’s just a lot of creative work. And whether it’s creating an advertisement for a company or creating a story. And so it was through the joy of creativity. And that’s kind of how I got into talking about it, or speaking about it, because I want to share with the world how much you get out of becoming more and more creative, opening your mind to more creative thinking. Opening up just the opportunities that are out there.
– I’m curious to know now if, I’m sure that in your career, you had to come up with a lot of creative ideas for yourself, for your clients. Can you give me an example of the one that you consider to be the most genius from the ideas that you came up with?
– Oh, genius.
– I like the word genius, or creative. You choose the word you want to associate with it.
– I can tell you about something that was just a lot of fun. There’s just so many things that I enjoy that’s creative. Sometimes it’s just doing something fun in the kitchen and creating something new from scratch. I got an idea back in college when I ran into a friend of mine. This is really going off track here. Okay, so I’ll just tell you the story from scratch. I walk out of my classroom. I see my buddy down at the end of the hall, and so I go down to speak to him. When I get there, I see he’s working with one of those old pistol grip label makers, you know, with the little vinyl strips. I said, “Ken, what are you up to?” He said, “I’m doing some work for the dean. “I’m putting the room numbers “up on the classrooms in braille “so that the blind students can figure out “which room they need to go to.” And so I watch him for a minute. And the school I go to is an urban campus in downtown Atlanta, Georgia State University. And at the time, all of the buildings were relatively close together. I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or not. But we had a lot of blind students on campus. And I’d gotten to know a couple from my classes. So as I’m watching Ken, well, all I can say is the devil got into me, and I said, “Ken, does that label maker just do numbers, “or does it do the whole alphabet?” And he goes, “Oh, it does the whole alphabet.” I said, “Great, let’s take that over “to the student centre men’s room “and put some graffiti up in braille.” And so we did. The next day we made a point of running into some of our blind friends and saying, “Hey, Jack, are you keeping up with “some of the graffiti they’re putting up “in the student centre men’s room?” And they’d get this really annoyed look on their face. I remember one friend, Jimmy, going, “Rob, why are you asking me that “when you know I can’t see it?” I said, “Well, next time you’re in there, “just feel above the toilet paper dispenser.” And within 48 hours, every blind student on campus had heard about it and they were after us. We put up some more. They said, “This is hilarious. We never get this stuff.” Ken and I were just thinking, well, we really didn’t intend to become the PC graffiti artists of GSU, but, we decided to go find some more graffiti. And so for inspiration we hit the bars. And then one night we went into this really old tavern that must have had 50 years worth of graffiti on the bathroom walls. And so we kept finding new ones we wanted to take back to school with us. And so we started writing down on a piece of paper. By the end of the night, we had filled up a sheet or two of paper with all this graffiti. And as we looked at all of this really funny stuff, we decided that, well, this was the beer talking. We’re two or three pitchers in right now. And we just decided, hey, let’s just keep collecting this stuff until we have enough for a book. And that was the night the idea was born for our book, which came out 16 years later. We didn’t know how long it would take us to collect enough. It took 15 years to collect enough graffiti for that book. But we kept the idea alive, because it was just too much fun. And so we have a book called Off the Wall, the best graffiti off the walls of America. And it’s an illustrated collection of bathroom graffiti. It’s hilarious.
– Oh my god, I need to get it. I need to get the book. I need to get the book. The reason why I asked you, because it feels like creativity has been a running theme throughout your life, from the moment you decided to write, the moment you went into advertisement, but also the idea that you had to create this book and to create these graffitis just from seeing this label maker. I think it’s a testament of some of the weirdest, or sometimes best ideas, they come from moments in life where you never expect. That’s my feeling around it. The question I want to ask you right now is still to get to know you a bit better before we move into the content. Was there a moment in your life which was very challenging? It was a very challenging moment in your life, or your business, and you had to come up with a creative idea with something to put you out of that situation. Can you give an example, if you have any moment like that?
– Well probably the most challenging moment was the Great Recession. I don’t know that I had any creative way out of that one other than just hard work. Probably one of the best things that I’ve done for growing my business, which was creative, is writing articles. I have an internationally syndicated column that I write, and it’s on achievement, kind of self motivation type of stuff, leadership, motivating others, and a lot on innovation and creative thinking, which is one of my favourite topics. I write about that a lot. That more than anything has boosted my business. People find me through my articles. They’ll read the stories. Because I’m a storyteller. More than anything else I consider myself a storyteller, whether I’m on a stage telling a story, whether I’m creating a story for an advertisement to get someone involved in a product or service, or whether it’s an article I’m writing, or fiction. I mean, it’s all storytelling. I’ll tell a story to illustrate a point in my articles. People will read them and go, “Oh, I like this. “Oh, this guy’s a speaker too. “Let’s get him for our next conference.” So that more than anything has been how I’ve built my speaking business. That and a lot of marketing.
– Gotta get out there.
– But that’s the most random way people have found me. I don’t know if it’s random, because it was kind of intentional. I tried to get as many publications to carry my column as possible.
– You mentioned story. You mentioned that, first of all, you are a storyteller. I think there are a lot of people in our industry, speaker, experts, that need the stories because that’s how we create the connection. That’s how we get people to care about us and what we do. But then the reality is, they kind of suck at telling stories. Or they become incredibly boring. Or they become just about themselves. Or they become with no real point, there is no real substance. So the question I have for you is, from your expert opinion, what makes a great story?
– What makes a great story. Well, you know, tension. I want to know what’s gonna happen. I was watching a movie the other day, and I was like, “This movie is boring,” because there was no plot line. It was just a story about some teenagers and all these things they would do from day to day to day. But you weren’t concerned about anything. It really lacked some type of tension to keep me interested. Like, how are they gonna resolve this problem? How are they gonna escape this? There was none of that in that movie. So I eventually just turned it off, after an hour. I gave it an hour.
– You gave it a lot of time. If it would have been me, I would have five minutes is enough.
– And maybe it redeemed itself later on, but I couldn’t wait. A storyteller, whether they’re telling a story from the stage, or whether they’re telling a story in an article, to create interest, there has to be some type of… I guess the best word I keep coming back to is tension. I have to feel some tension. The audience needs to feel some tension as they’re hearing it or reading it. They’re on the edge of their seat. What’s gonna happen? How’s he gonna resolve this? I want to know! And if you’re not telling a story like that, then you’re not gonna grab them. And that’s one of the most important things someone can do in their very opening of a speech. Don’t do any warmup stuff. Don’t do, “Oh, I’m so glad to be here in your town. “So good to see all you people.” Jump right into your story. I mean jump right into the tension.
– Yeah, it’s very powerful. Just going in, straight in. Don’t even let the audience take– Because that’s the moment where you have the biggest attention, is when you come in. You’re fresh. They are there expecting something to happen. And the first few seconds, they’re the crucial one. So if you waste them by saying, “Oh, guys, how you doing today?” Then you’ve wasted the most precious moment that you have in your speech. So now, from storytelling, let’s move to innovation. Can you tell me a bit more about the work that you do around innovation?
– Well, mostly I like teaching people how to think more like an innovator, to live what I call the innovator’s lifestyle. Part of that is understanding what innovation and creative thinking is all about, which really, you boil it down to its essence, it’s all about problem solving or satisfying needs. You’ve heard that old saying a million times, necessity is the mother of invention. That’s the time we’re most likely to be creative or innovators, when we’re forced into it. When suddenly we’re backed up against the wall and we’ve gotta fix something with spit and prayer. Or maybe duct tape and WD-40.
– You know, it made me think about the time where business was not working. So I made a very stupid decision to quit my job and start my speaking business without having a clue, or any contacts, or any money, and just hoping that somehow, something was gonna happen. That’s how wise I was. I ended up, because I’m a musician, I play the didgeridoo, which is an instrument from Australia, I found myself without money. And I was like, man, I’ve got to figure out some way because somehow I don’t know how to get clients for my business. So I went to one of the main squares of London. I’ve heard that that’s the only square where you can play music without having a busking licence. Because I didn’t have even the money to pay my licence for busking. And I was there with this long ass didgeridoo. You can actually see there in the back. It’s about six and a half feet tall. And going around the tube in the subway, like smashing other people’s heads. And somehow I managed to pay my bills, or survive, just by playing music on the street. The question was– This is what made me think about it– would I have ever done it if I didn’t have the necessity to pay my rent? Probably not, because it wasn’t my plan to ever even go in the street and busk.
– Well I think what you did is excellent, because if you want to do something, don’t wait until you’ve got all your ducks in a row. If you wait until you’ve written your business plan, and you’ve gotten all the equipment, and you’ve done– You’ll never get started. Some people get caught up in the perfectionism of trying to get a business going. And in my opinion, just get started. And you can tweak it later. You can refine it as you go along. But getting it going. Back in my early days as a freelance advertising copywriter I would do some freelance work through a lot of ad agencies. This is back in the day before email. I would have to go by and actually drop off copy, or drop off a floppy disc. I would run into other writers that I would know at some of these agencies, and they’d go, “Oh, Rob, I wish that I could be a freelancer too. “If I could just get that first client, “I could quit this job, and I could freelance as well. “I’d like to have the freedom of freelancing.” I said, “You’re never gonna find it until you quit the job.” When you quit the job, you’ll be motivated by that rent check you gotta pay, or that mortgage payment. You’ll get out there. You’ll knock on doors until you find that writer. It’s probably the same with any business, in my opinion. Get out there and start it. Experts will tell you, “Oh, you want to have six months worth of living money “before you start this, so that you’re not starving.” There’s something about putting your intention to do something out there in the world that makes that stuff come to you. It’s just remarkable. You let the world know what you want to do and what you want to be. Opportunities just open up almost like magic. And it’s just because that’s what you want, and it seems to come to you when you do that.
– I want to know about creativity and innovation now. As you said, we become more creative, more innovative, when we are with our back against the wall where we have to create something. Now, I found that, however, sometimes there are some people that when something like this happens, the business is falling apart, or they need to come up with a new solution, they have a problem with a client, instead of activating this creativity, they shut themselves down. And instead of going into this solutions focused mode, because that’s the moment where you need a solution, they stop operating. So do you have any advice, or any model, or any system that you use to encourage and invite this creative thinking, in particular where it’s needed?
– Pretty much what people need to do is to expose themselves to as many new experiences as they can. The more stimuli we’re exposed to, the more information we’re exposed to, the more different opinions we’re exposed to, literally lay new neural pathways down in our brain. It opens up new electrical connections between the brain cells. And as we do that, that gives us more resources, more data, more information from which to draw on, and from which to make more connections. Because if you think about what an idea is, it’s really just two or more existing concepts that have been melded or synthesised into something new. And you can’t do that unless you’ve got a lot of stuff coming in. And also, I think just getting out there, and doing things, and experiencing more things, not only creates those new electrical connections, but experiencing new things also triggers our dopamine receptors in our brain, which make us feel good. And when we feel good, we’re more likely to get out there and do more, and make those connections with people that we need to make that can help boost our career. Sometimes you just have to get out there, expose yourselves to new experiences, new people, new meetings, go networking. Do something that will help trigger a lot of that. As I was saying before, I think there’s three characteristics to an innovative thinkers. And we can talk about that later. But that’s part of it. That’s the main one of those three, is exposing yourself to a lot of new things.
– Let’s talk about the other two, because now I want to know that. So one is exposing yourself. It feels like what were you saying, instead of closing and shutting yourself down, or banging your head against the wall waiting for the wall to move without realising that actually your head is going to crush first. Then it is about exploring, and even stop thinking about that problem so much. Just have it in the back of your mind, go out there, and allow that inspiration to come. That’s the moment where you actually should do something different. So I’m going to remember this for my next business classes next time it’s going to come, because definitely I don’t do enough of this. So what are the other two elements of the innovator lifestyle?
– Well, there’s three aspects. The first one is technique, the second is mindset, and then the third is the lifestyle. The lifestyle is what we’ve already talked about. It’s exposing yourself to as many new things as possible. Now the techniques, there are a lot of different techniques in stimulating creative thinking. And they all pretty much boil down to one thing. I mean, there are several books out there that will give you dozens and dozens of ways to do this. But it all boils down to one simple thing, and that’s changing your perspective. Looking at things in a new way. There was a guy, Albert Gyorgyi, who discovered vitamin C. He once said, “Discovery consists in looking at “the same things as everyone else, “but thinking something different.” And then I love that movie with Robin Williams, the Dead Poets Society. Have you seen that? Remember one day he walks into the classroom and climbs up onto his desk. And then he asks his students, “Why do I stand upon my desk?” Well, they don’t have any idea, so he goes ahead and tells them. He goes, “I stand upon my desk to remind myself “that we must constantly look at things in different ways.” And that’s your key right there. That’s the key to creative thinking. That’s the key, is to get yourself to see things from a different perspective. And when you can do that, then that really stimulates creative thinking. Like I said, there’s a lot of techniques you can use to do that. Some are simple, some are easy. You have to find ones that work for you, for your type of temperament, your type of personality. For me, I use some writing techniques. If I have a problem I’m trying to solve, I will sit down, and I will start writing about it in great detail. I will write like a long term paper. You know, 10, 20 pages, trying to write everything I know about the issue. And then what happens, I keep a separate sheet of paper because as I’m writing, little fragments of ideas will start firing in my brain. And I’ll write that down, because if you don’t, you’ll forget it. You’ll get these little idea fragments that are kind of like, “Let me write that down.” And then after a while, you’ll realise that that little separate sheet of paper is where that idea will be born. For me, that’s one of my favourite. And then there’s several others I could mention if you want to hear. Okay, here’s another one.
– Yeah, one more.
– This is a real simple one. Ask yourself this question: What would I do if the opposite were true? So what is your problem? Okay, business is down. I’m really suffering right now. I can’t seem to find any clients. Well what would you be doing if your business was overwhelming, and you had so many clients you didn’t know what to do? You had the opposite problem. And then that will get you thinking in a different direction. It reverses you immediately by saying what would I do if the opposite were true.
– I never heard about this before. I’m gonna use it. I’m definitely going to use it. I can see it. I can see how well that works. It gets your mind to think in the direction where actually you want to go. So it sets that on fire.
– Well there’s an advertising story that kind of makes a good example of that. Marlboro cigarettes, for over 100 years, were a cigarette brand targeting women smokers. The company had so many cigarette brands, they were saying, “We need to cut some brands. “We’ve got too many things go on. “Let’s get rid of this Marlboro. “It’s not doing anything. It’s really not doing much.” One guy says, “We can’t do that.” One of the marketers goes, “We can’t do that. “We’ve had this brand for over 100 years. “Let’s just change the way we market it. “Instead of marketing it to women, “let’s market it to blue collar workers, “really He-Man kind of guys. “Let’s give it a cowboy theme.” And they did, and it became the number one, bestselling cigarette in the history of cigarettes. So they went from being a refined lady’s cigarette to being a tough guy cigarette, and then the ladies smoked them too. By doing a 180 degree turn, they did an opposite. They did the exact opposite of what they had been doing, and it worked. So just kind of a story along those lines that I always thought was interesting.
– Love this. Can you remind us of the three stages of the innovation process? You said that first one is…
– Okay, the three characteristics of innovators are– Wait, no. Okay, I’m getting confused. The three parts of being an innovator are technique, mindset, and then the lifestyle.
– I just wanted to make sure so that–
– The one we haven’t talked about is the mindset. Creative thinkers, innovators, believe– This is the number one part of it. They believe that they’re creative. They believe that when they set out to solve a problem or invent something, that they’re going to be successful. And this makes people around them crazy, because they see them failing, and failing, and failing, and they go, “Why do you keep wasting your time, “and your money, and your effort? “Why do you keep doing this?” It’s because they have this idea, this belief, that it’s gonna work. And that’s what drives these people. And here’s the other parts of that. These are really the three characteristics of innovators, is one they have this strong, powerful belief that they can do what they’re gonna do, which enables them to have the second characteristic. They are willing to take risks that most people wouldn’t. A risk, in order for something to be a risk, means you have to be able to lose something. That might be as simple as losing face, hurting your reputation. It could be losing time. It could be losing money. That’s a huge part of being an innovator, is that you’re willing to break the rules. You’re willing to go off in an untraditional way. You question authority. You ask, constantly, “Why do we have to do things this way? “Why can’t we do it that way?” This is part of that mindset. They’re willing to take risks, they’re willing to break the rules. And the reason they’re willing to do this goes back to the first characteristic. It’s because they believe they’re gonna succeed. They just have this powerful belief it’s gonna work. It’s gonna work out. Everything is gonna be fine. Okay, I’ve lost $1 million. Thomas Edison said, “I have not failed 1,000 times. “I have simply found 1,000 ways that don’t work.” So that’s the third characteristic, is this belief, and this willingness to take risks. Yeah, belief. The belief and the willingness to take risks.
– Yeah, absolutely. So guys, make sure you take notes, because that’s what it takes. That’s what it takes. We all, as experts in our field, we all need to be able to reinvent ourselves. We all need to be able to get out there in a new light because you find that, I’m sure you see it everywhere, there are people that are just copycats, and they are doing what everyone else is doing. Of course, if you are doing what everyone else is doing in your business, then it’s very unlikely you’re going to stand out, and then people are going to buy from the innovators, from the people that they can see there this spark, and this genius. And they are different in particular. That difference is the key word here. Now I have a question for you, because we are starting the session on the last part of the interview, which is about lifting the veil. That’s where I’m going to ask you something that you do, or you did, in your business, or a tool that you’re using. It can be a system, a process, whatever you choose, that is working incredibly well for you. That say, well, if I can give this piece to other people, that would make a hell of a lot of difference in their business too. What is that thing?
– I would suggest that they establish their expertise by writing about it. Because you can always find a place to publish something you’ve written, even if you have just your own blog. To me, that is one of the best ways of establishing expertise. And that’s what people are looking for. They want to know what you’re good at, and that’s how you prove it. And nothing has worked better for me than that. I mentioned that earlier, but that’s really the best advice I can give anyone. Of course, I am a writer. That’s natural for me. I know it’s not as easy for other people. But the thing is, sit down and write every day. And the more you write, the better you’ll get at it. Again, get started with it. Don’t worry about whether it’s perfect. Use a spell checker, please.
– Grammarly is my best friend.
– But other than that, start telling your stories about what you know best. Everybody is good at something. And everybody is good at something to the degree that somebody wants to know how to do that. And a lot of times we just need to explore what that is. What are you passionate about? That’s what you can most easily write about. What really gets you going? What fires you up? What gets you angry, or happy? What triggers your emotions more than anything else? And that’s what you should be writing about. That’s maybe what you can help people with the most.
– How do you select– What’s your process for– How do you select the topics for writing? You need always to come up with new ideas, new content. How do you select what to write about?
– Well that’s a real challenge for me because the column that I write, I write each one so that it’s timeless. So I try not, or I do not, tie it to any current events. That makes it a little difficult sometimes to come up with an idea. If you want to write about current events, things that are going on, I can come up with a topic every single day. But when I want to come up with a topic that’s going to last for years… Because I have publishers just starting out with my column that I started writing 11 years ago. The ones I wrote 11 years ago are just as fresh today as they were when I first wrote them. And so they’re still good copy for people who want to run them. So I still have people running those. And that’s what makes that a challenge, is coming up with new topics. But basically, a lot of times what happens, what triggers the topic for that particular month– because I only write it once a month– is something that’s going on with me personally. If it’s a challenge I’m dealing with, then I’ll go, “What’s a story I can tell that illustrates “what I’m going through and can help me make this point.” And so that’s kind of what I do. Sometimes I’m looking internally.
– Yeah, and I think that this is a great way to come up with content in particular. There is one person that we know, or an experience that we know, is ourselves. We know what we are thinking, what we are going through. Also it’s a great way to establish a relationship with the audience. Because then the audience, finally people can connect with you, can connect with the writer. Not just the content, or beautifully it is written. Because for example, I’ve started copywriting. My copy is not bad. But if I have to choose between writing, doing a video, doing a show, all day long I would talk instead of write. Just for me, going there and writing is not something that comes natural. I wrote four books, and it was the four most painful experiences of my life because I had to force myself to get down and write. But then I found one thing that the worst part is the beginning. The worst part is the beginning. Then when I am in it, I actually start enjoying it, and the words start flowing. But it takes a good five to 10 minutes, even sometimes 15 minutes, before I start enjoying the process. The first 15 minutes are kind of the warmup.
– I think that’s true for everyone. I mean, that’s true for me. I sit down and will sometimes just write a bunch of nonsense, it almost seems like. I’ll have a vague idea. But here’s a technique that will help people. If you’re writing and you get some momentum going to writing, and especially if it’s a longer piece like a book, what I recommend people do is don’t stop each day at a point where you’ve completed something. Stop mid paragraph, mid sentence, because then you sit down the next day, you already know how to finish that sentence because it was already in your head from the day before. And that literally jump starts you into writing. You sit down and go, “Oh, yeah. That’s what I wanted,” and you get that last paragraph finished that you could have finished the day before, but by finishing it the next day, it literally jump starts you in to the next page, or the next paragraph after that.
– Oh my god. I love it.
– It’s a wonderful technique.
– I’m writing now the fifth book. I’m gonna test it out. I’m going to test this out tomorrow morning. I’m really excited, because generally, actually, I force myself to finish the chapter. I’m like, “Okay, I’ve got this chapter to write. “Let me finish the chapter,” and the day after I’ll start with a new chapter, or a new sub-chapter. That’s food for thought.
– It works.
– I love experimenting. I love experimenting with new things. And definitely you are more of an expert on this subject than I am. So hey, listen to people that know what they’re doing. Now, Rob, it’s been a great interview. Absolutely love it. Love your energy. Incredibly entertaining, and valuable, every single minute. Because every person that now is having challenges, or they need to think more creatively, or they need to go and think outside the box, I feel that for what you shared from this interview, now they are equipped to do that, which is the most important thing. For people that want to go deeper into your content, they want to get to know you better, how can they reach out to you? What do you have for them?
– Well the best way to reach me probably is through my website. It’s jumpstartyourmeeting.com. So four words run together. Jumpstartyourmeeting.com. Or find me by looking up Robert Evans Wilson Jr. That’s the only way you’re gonna find me. If you look for Rob Wilson, or Robert Wilson, you will find zillions. It’s like finding a needle in a haystack. That’s what I tell people. Look me up by my full name. Pretty much all the links to everything that I do are on my website. I write a blog for Psychology Today on a lot of things we talked about today. My internationally syndicated column is called The Uncomfort Zone. So if anyone is interested, who has a publication, would like to run some good copy, contact me about that as well.
– Fantastic. Brilliant.
– Hire me to speak, too. Yeah. Hire me for your next conference. That would be great.
– So we are going to put all the links in the show notes, or in our blog post that we are going to write about this interview. Make sure that you check the links, get in touch with Rob, because you already heard and seen from him what we can do. And definitely if you’re thinking about a great speaker for your next event, then get in touch. You’ve already seen his style. And definitely he’s going to blow your audience away. I can vouch for that. Rob, thank you very much for being on the show. I wish you a fantastic day.
– Well thank you, Simone. It has been a lot of fun.
– I appreciate it. And ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for listening. Thank you for watching. Make sure that you subscribe right now to our show. Click the juicy button, which I know is calling you right now. Click subscribe. And also leave us a review. Let us know what you enjoy the most about this interview. Leave us a review. And then I’m going to pick the best review, the best comment, and I’m going to feature you on the show. I’m going to make sure that I’ll give you a shoutout. Now, before we leave, remember one thing: That together we grow exponentially. Bye for now.