Welcome to episode #172 of Explode Your Expert Biz Show, brought to you by http://gtex.org.uk/,
I am your host, Simone Vincenzi, The Experts Strategist, and this is the podcast for experts who want to become the ultimate authority in their niche while making an impact in the world.
Today I have the pleasure to Interview Frank Kern
Frank Kern is the creator of Behavioral Dynamic Response which is an automated marketing method that speeds up your sales cycle by customizing your marketing messages based on your prospect’s behaviour. He is the most sought after Direct Response internet marketing consultant and copywriter on the planet.
In this episode we talk about:
- What works now in the paid advertisement world
- How to run profitable ads
- What to say and when to say to turn a cold audience into high-paying customers
Connect with Frank Kern
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– Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Explore your Expert business show. Today, I’m here with the one and only, the man, Frank Kern. How are you doing, Frank?
– I’m great, man. What a great intro, thank you.
– You know what? It’s a pleasure to have you here today because as I mentioned in our conversation before, you have been one of my biggest inspiration when I started GTeX five years ago and I’ve been following you now for seven, eight years. I think, and you are the person who shaped the Internet, in my opinion, who shaped the, in particular, the online marketing world, as we know it now. And so the influence that you left is there. You’re the person in the Internet marketing, and I’m really excited to have you here. And today we are going to talk about a lot of new concept and new strategies that you’re using to help your clients scale their businesses and grow their businesses faster, but for people that, for the few people that are listening now or watching now, even live, that don’t know you, can just give a bit of a review about where you started and where you came from?
– Sure, yeah, I started online in 1999. I was a door-to-door credit card machine salesman, a very bad one at that, and was tired of the constant rejection, because I was an uninvited door-to-door salesman all the time, so I sought to figure out how to get people to come to me, and I wanted to use the Internet to do that, and never looked back, so I’ve been building online advertising campaigns and advising entrepreneurs, really, since then, and it’s gone pretty well.
– Yeah, it’s going okay. It’s been a crazy journey, so I went from selling information about how to sell information, AKA get rich on the Internet stuff, when I first started because that’s what I bought and that’s what I learned from, got in trouble with the government for doing that because apparently, there are all these regulations you’re supposed to follow that they don’t really make readily available to you, so that was in 2003. I learned the lesson on that thing. Now, interestingly enough, I get to work with ERSP on regulatory compliance itself, which is kind of cool, so that came full circle.
– So you switch side?
– I’m on the side of educating people about the regulatory stuff.
– Same dumb stuff I did 15 or 18 years ago, however long it’s been, and so yeah, it’s pretty good. Had a little stint for, mostly been working in the B2B space, had a little bit of time, I think about two years, where I created a really successful business in the pet training world, which I sold around 2007 or so, but ever since, it’s just been creating campaigns for really bigger clients and acting as an advisor for some household name type folks, and just making it happen, man.
– And what I’m curious to know now is, in terms of your evolution, because I said I’ve been following you for a long time, and your message evolved. You evolved as an individual and also your strategy’s changed. So what in particular in the last period, what has been the studies, or the data, or the experience that made you change in the message that you have right now?
– Well, it was an accidental discovery. So from whenever I started up until this year, I used the Internet in the traditional manner, which is you drive traffic to a lead capture style page, and you say, “Hey, I’ll give you some cool free stuff. “Where do you want me to send it?” And then you give them really cool free stuff, and hopefully they like it and they like you, and then you offer them more stuff for some money. It’s a very simplified version of the way that media typically works, and recently, I accidentally, and I’m gonna air quote this, discovered, this newer methodology which is, essentially, you don’t have to make people opt in for this stuff, all right, so if we consider the biggest advertising channels online, some of them anyway, are social media, and if you think about how people like to consume, actually, you think about two things, where do people like to spend their time online, and then how do they like to consume content? Typically, the answer is going to be in social media and video or audio media, on video podcasts, so again, I really didn’t discover this. I think all of the big social media smart people would say, “I told you so,” and I would say, “You’re right, tell me so.” I should have listened, but what I found, and this is really in an advertising context, so I separate Internet marketing and the air quotes from online advertising as two different worlds. For me, the word Internet marketing has kind of a business opportunity association with, nothing wrong with that, but this is within the context of actually using the Internet as a platform to advertise, so if you think about the way it always worked, let’s say you spent five dollars to acquire an opt-in, as a– You know what I mean? And then if we take into consideration that all right, it’s unlikely anyone’s really gonna buy anything unless they consume your content and like you, so then we start doing some math, and as we think, okay, what if 50% of those people opt-in actually go and click on one of the emails that I’m sending them and go watch a video that’s helpful? I think that’s a really ambitious number. It’s not going to be 50%, it’s gonna be less. We’ll say 50% for easy. That’s, it costs 10 bucks to get someone to see, at least your first piece of content, and so the question becomes is everybody gonna watch all of the first video or whatever, and they answer no, of course not, so you say, “Okay, well what if half of them watched it?” All right, that means it’s now 20 dollars to get someone to watch one of your pieces of content which are critical in order to build the relationship that causes people to know, like, and trust you so they want to buy your stuff, so what I’ve figured out, as a result of refusing to listen to smarter people and ignoring the obvious, is that if you take that same stuff that you would make people opt in for, and you just serve it to them in the form of ads on social, and there is a strategy to it, and then you monitor the people, that sounds weird but Facebook tells you all this stuff, you look and see who’s watching it, and then you re-target those people with ads, it’s a lot more effective and a lot less expensive, typically, to acquire a customer, which equates to more profit, which is awesome.
– I really, it makes sense, it makes sense. Okay, actually, I’m saving money and more people see my stuff, and also now, in particular, I think that if you’re talking about the email marketing world have changed massively. People receive a lot of emails, so before even they are opening yours, they need to have a very strong reason why. They, they–
– [Frank] We have to assume they’re even gonna see it, right? So here, look, I got my phone here, so, now look at just this morning. All right, so it’s 9:15 a.m. while we’re talking, and everyone checks email on their phone, so my screen is already full with stuff that’s come through since 8:21 already this morning, so if someone sent me something prior to that, I would have to scroll all the way up here, and see it, so even if they like you, chances of them seeing the email, it’s going to be really, really small. So if you were like anyone who uses email as a primary channel, it’s their main marketing channel for people, compare this year’s open rates to clicks to last year’s, and you’ll see that it’s going down, and it’s because it’s saturated and people don’t have time for it, or even if they do, they’ll look at it and be like I’ll look at that later, and then 30 minutes from now, the screen’s full of new messages and they forget, so it’s definitely dying out.
– Yeah, it is, so now, you made this transition, and now, I wanted, before we go into the strategy, I have one more question for you. How easy or difficult was for you the transition to the new strategy, were you open or were you really pissed off, it’s okay. Right now, I’ve got all this campaign that I build, all this stuff that I built for my business before, and now I need to readjust a lot of moving parts. What was your reaction to that?
– [Frank] I didn’t have to readjust anything. It simplified everything tremendously, so again, I’m using air quotes when I say the word discover, because smarter people than me have been preaching this forever. We do have a difference in philosophy as to how the content should be structured, and we can talk about in a minute, but it was an accident, so earlier in the year, Facebook added this little link, so a lot of people advertise on Facebook, including me, heavily, and Facebook advertises, or didn’t advertise it, but put a little link on everyone’s page that runs ad that says info and ads, and it means you can see all the ads somebody is running, which really doesn’t matter to 99.99% of the businesses out there, unless you’re a pretend famous Internet advertising person that a lot of people study, so what happened was as soon as that occurred, hundreds of people literally that are in that space copied my ads verbatim because there I was, it’s working for him, we’re gonna model it, we’re gonna test it in our business, so they copied my ads and my offers verbatim within a week, and it caused all of my client acquisition or customer acquisition, I was selling a book at the time, it caused it to really go up, which was not profitable, so I was like, what the heck is– And then we did some research and found there’s hundreds of people were knocking it off, which is fine, whatever, so I was mad about that and it led me to say, “Okay, you can copy my ads but you can’t copy me on video,” so I’m just gonna start running really, really heavy video, and when I did it, I wasn’t actually trying to sell anything. I was just putting out content, and in the content that I was putting out, I had mentioned work with private clients, and so there was no website to become a private– There’s no sales letter for it. I mean it was just saying, “All right, I was working with these clients the other day. “I have these private clients, and here’s one of the things “I learned working with them. “Here’s a strategy. “You might wanna try the strategy.” Within seven days, we had 76,000 dollars of private client revenue come in as a direct result of those videos that didn’t even make an offer, so my reaction to the shift was very joyous.
-Finally, I don’t need all the other stuff.
– [Frank] Oh my gosh, man, it’s brutal, so if you’re trying to run ads to a page, get someone to opt in, if you’re doing it, if you’re really advertising and you’re not new, whatever, it’s really harder if you’re new, but if you’re a real advertiser, you’re gonna know, anyone who really runs ads can relate to this. Every week or something, the ads get fatigued. You have to rebuild them, reset them, and it’s because you’re trying to force people into this system, and they don’t use the media that way. No one gets on Facebook going, “Oh, I hope I can see something “that I have to leave Facebook and then go opt in “on another page and get a million emails.” Nobody wakes up and says that. They just want cool stuff. So when I discovered it, again, quote-unquote, I was like, this is great. I don’t have to do any of that crap, and everyone who’s seeing this stuff likes it. Well, most of them like it because it’s just helpful to people, so I get to be really nice and give cool stuff away, and in doing that, it builds the brand, and then of course, we develop the actual strategy right. You can’t just be Santa Claus and, I mean you might be able to survive only if you’re selling something with a big enough margin, but then we figured out how to accomplish that same mission of really genuinely helping people for free, no opt-in, no friction on their part, and then transitioning into offers later down the line. It worked great.
– So shall we lift the veil on this strategy and see what’s working? If someone wants to start adopting this strategy, what are the elements that they need to be aware of? What are these pieces of the puzzle?
– [Frank] Well, first, let me make it not as cool-sounding.
– Okay, right, disclaimers first. Disclaimers first.
– [Frank] This is not for the faint of heart, so if someone’s not already really running a lot of ads, and really playing in that field, they probably won’t like it, so somebody’s looking at a 10,000-dollar a month ad budget or whatever and they’re like, “I gotta get this back tomorrow,” then this is gonna be really tough, so first things first, as it takes, if you’re really doing it right, it’s gonna take you about two or three weeks of putting content out with strategy behind it, I’ll talk about the strategy in a minute, before you ever even want to make an offer. Now once that first three-week period is up, then you can start making offers and then it’s not like a cycle where you do nothing for three weeks and then make offers, but at first, you’re gonna be spending money on ads that aren’t selling anything, ’cause you’re building up your audience. It’s just like building an email list, but you don’t actually have an email list. It’s all in this retargeting audience that’s stored in Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, or whatever. Yeah, so that’s thing number one, is while it’s extremely powerful, it’s not for the person that’s just looking at every single dollar going, “I have to get this money back in 24 hours “or else I’m gonna lose the farm.” I’ve been there. I get it, I don’t have a lack of empathy. I’m just telling you in advance–
– That strategy’s not for you.
– [Frank] Yeah, it’s just I don’t want you to go down and try and be like, oh my gosh, I’ve been doing it for a week and no one bought anything. They’re not supposed to yet, yeah. So with all of that said, here’s the big picture idea. Before you ever make any content, you have to understand what the intent is behind the content, and this is where I differ between the people who could easily and accurately say, “Dude, I told you so. “You should be putting out more content.” So a lot of people will put out content for the sake of putting out content, which is cool, but it doesn’t necessarily achieve your objective, which is to ultimately get customers. So the first thing you have to do is say, “All right, what is the end goal here? “What do I want the person who’s seeing this content “to ultimately go do?” So let’s say it’s sign up to be whatever, a consulting client or something, so if you know that, then we say, “All right, if that’s the case, “who is the perfect person that we want “to go take that action?” And you might say, “Well, I want it “to be a million dollar business plus, “minimum million dollars. “I want to be spending a lot of advertising revenue, “I want them to really wanna be able to scale that revenue,” so once we start finding out who you want, then we get into the really most important pieces of the puzzle, which is, one, what does that person want in relation to what you can provide? What’s really, really important to them? Two, what are their frustrations? What are they going through? Three, what are the emotions behind those frustrations, and four, what do you need to demonstrate to be true in order for them to want to do business with you? And when you get the answers to all of those questions, it usually takes me about an hour to extract that from the client, just within a conversational, we do on Zoom, so it’s like, you really have to dig deep, but once you get the answers to that, then that gives you the building blocks of how to assemble your front line of content, so if you know who you want, what they want, what their frustrations are, and what the emotions are behind those frustrations, now you can actually build content that’s specifically attractive just to them. So what happens is you’re able to, immediately, once you start running traffic to these ads, the ads aren’t even selling anything. They’re literally just straight up, here’s good stuff, bye. Not buy as in purchase, but bye, see you later. What Facebook will tell you or whatever advertising platform you’re using, I mean we really use it a lot on Facebook, is it will give you metrics on how much it costs to get someone to complete 100% of those videos, so the logic now is, all right, if it’s costing within our KPIs here to get someone to watch 100%, if it’s cheap, that means that the marketing message is resonating with who we want, so now you’re saying the right stuff because it’s been proven by math. Yeah, I think no one can make up a thing less sexy than I can, so– It opens like now more math, but it really, if you want to really succeed, I’m trying to talk–
– It’s numbers, it’s numbers. Numbers talk.
– [Frank] Anybody running a lot of ads knows it’s math. At the end of the day, I mean well, obviously, taking into consideration that you’re selling good stuff, but it’s–
– I have a question, I have a question for you regarding the type of content ceiling here in the first stage. You mentioned a lot of video ads because you have the option to see what kind of percentage of the audience is watching, so if they’re watching, 25% of the video, 50%, 75%, 100%, and from them, seeing which kind of are the audience that are most engaged. Would you also use written content or do you only focus on video content because of the ability to measure how they consume it?
– [Frank] Video, we always use video and here’s why. The phone is the television now. This is the television, and so we’ve shifted, as an agency, to, all right, our clients are now the channel that is being broadcast to this television, and the reason I say the phone is the television, because go in any restaurant or whatever, and look at someone on their phone. They’re either gonna be texting, which is irrelevant within the concept of advertising, or they’re gonna be on social, and they’re almost always looking at some sort of video content on social, so it is the fastest-growing, most consumed, that might actually not be accurate, who knows what the most consumed is thing. It probably changes every 10 minutes, but extremely, you’re highly consumed for content on that television, so to speak, so if, actually, a better metaphor is this is the TV, Facebook is the broadcasting network, you’re the channel on that network, so that broadcasting network that prefers video, so that’s why we use video. Everything becomes about the customer, the person who you’re wanting to attract and how they want to consume things, and that’s what a lot of advertising doesn’t really understand is it’s never about us, it’s never what we want. It’s what they want and what’s gonna give them the least friction and how can we remove the barrier to creating that relationship, so no more opt-ins. They don’t want to do that. No long stuff, no, long-form copy works in other examples, but in this example, we don’t want to make them read a lot of stuff, we want to give them a good message that they can consume in about three to five minutes.
– The reason, there is a question here, which i think is relevant right now, from a good friend, Jeff J Hunter. Hi, Jeff, thank you for watching. The question is what kind of call to action do you have as the main call to action on those videos at this stage?
– [Frank] None.
– No call to action.
– [Frank] Nothing whatsoever. Yeah, because all we’re doing is we’re building a list, but instead of them opting in, it’s a retargeting audience based on– Yeah, and we run them, by the way, here’s a little secret sauce. It’s not a video views ad that we run. This is engagement ad, and we don’t count, when Facebook says a view that, it’ll count a view is someone who saw it briefly for a second or two, that doesn’t count in our world. They have to consume, for us to know the video’s good, they have to consume 95 to 100% of it, so it’s really a different way of thinking, and that’s why we don’t have a call to action because we know if they consume it, they’re now in our retargeting audience, and now, we can market to them, so I’ll give you the framework of how to make the content videos if it’ll be helpful.
– Yeah, I think, guys, would it be helpful? Just comment yes in a comment if that will be helpful for you, and I answered the question even before the comment, yes, please do.
– [Frank] I totally forget that we’re streaming right now and I’m like, oh yeah, it’s not just us. So where people are watching it, so there’s an empty bookshelf behind me because I’m illiterate, so we don’t need any books. Can’t read. That’s why I do the videos, ’cause can’t read or write nothing. Just have to talking on there, yup. All right, so here’s the framework.
– And very modest at the same time.
-Nice to be all showy-looking with a bunch of books and everything. All right, so here’s the framework, and this is what we do for clients, so every week, we sort of bullet-point this out for clients. We get them to say it in their phone, and then we put it into production and make it cool-looking. All right, so step number one is called a seed, and in the seed, you say who you are and what you do, and it’s meant to be five seconds. You’re not trying to sell anything. So I might say, “Hi, my name’s Frank Kern. “I own an advertising agency “and we help seven-figure-plus online businesses grow “and scale their advertising profitably, “but not how you might think.” All right, so that’s just bing! That’s it. So what happens in that one seeding part, as it’s, to quote Gary Halbert, one of the greatest copywriters ever, is like a meat cleaver, so if someone sees that and they are, A, not a seven-figure business, they, B, don’t advertise and don’t want to, then they’re not gonna watch it. Now that doesn’t mean that every other person that watches past that point is, but at least gives us some bit of a filter in there, and the reason why you want to filter is because, again, everything is data-driven, so we don’t want a bunch of people watching it who aren’t in our target market because we’ll get a false hit on what the next videos should say, so that’s all of the psychology behind that five seconds. All right, so the next part is going to be, it’s called the intro to opportunity or frustration, and that’s, usually, what that means is you’re going to start talking about what they want or what they’re frustrated with, so a great way to begin that segment of the video is people come to me because, or clients tell me or whatever, so I’ll just sort of ad lib it. So I might say now for that second little piece, I might say, “Yeah, clients come to our agency “because typically, they are really running a lot “of advertising, and what happens is one of two things. “Number one, the advertising not working anymore. “They’re getting plenty of leads “but no one’s opened the emails or whatever, or number two, “it’s working great but they cannot scale it. “Every time they try to grow it, their cost per acquisition “gets higher or whatever,” so that’s me talking specifically to who I want talking about what they want, and what their frustrations are, so our third step is to talk about the emotions associated with those frustrations or desires, so i might say something, and usually, when someone has this, there’s a couple of things that’s going through your head. Number one is they’re super frustrated because they work so hard to get all of this stuff built and it’s like they built this really great foundation for their business, but now the foundation is crumbling, and they also, as a result of that, now start to feel really, really anxious because they wonder what if this keeps going in this downward trend? What’s this going to mean for my business? So now when these first three steps, what I’m really doing is building an empathetic bond with them, where they’re saying, “Okay, this person “is describing me perfectly. “They know exactly what I’m going through,” and now your viewer is paying attention, and that’s what we want. We want to build that connection with them. We don’t wanna be talking-head salespeople. We want them to know, yeah, I understand what you’re going through, I understand how you feel. Okay, so our next step, which I think step four is the point, right? So every piece of content has to have an actual point, and this is where I really differ a lot, and other people that talk about content, we need to have a reason why we’re making it, so we already know we want to be magnetic to this certain demographic, but now we have to become magnetic to them, and we can’t be magnetic to them just by saying, “I know how you feel.” So the point needs to be a really big picture concept that they can understand and benefit from. All right, so I might say something like, “Well, that sounds like you. “I can totally relate. “I’ve been there. “I spent seven figures a year, “well over six figures a month, “on a classic direct response funnel, “and then after having, watching the cost for acquisition “go up, down, up, down, up, down, “and having to redo the ad campaigns “every four or five days, I finally found a better way, “and the better way is to remove the friction “from your prospect,” and then I might teach a little bit around that. I might say, “Look, if you’re running ads, “you know that your income is gonna be in direct proportion “to a couple of things.” Number one is gonna be in direct proportion to the amount of goodwill that you have with your audience. Number two is gonna be in the in direct proportion to the amount of offers you make with your audience. Well, if we know that, typically, you can’t build goodwill with the audience until after they become a lead, and that the foundation upon which we’re building the lead generation is crumbling, we’re in trouble, and the way to fix that is to remove that friction. Make it where they don’t have to opt in and put out the best content in front of them, so I’ve just kind of given them the main point. The next step is five, which is just tell a story that illustrates that point, and this is important. If the main point is the nail, then the story is the hammer that drives that nail home. A lot of people go way down this technical content rabbit hole, and that’s not what you want to do. You wanna give them big picture stuff. Tell a story that illustrates the big picture, and at the end of that, give them a useful tip. All right, so I might tell the story of how I discovered this stuff. Yeah, I say, “A couple months ago, Facebook let everybody “in the world see your ads. “If you’re an advertiser, you can relate to this. “Your competitors are gonna go, “they’re gonna copy your stuff. “Happened to me, I got really angry about it. “Started make videos because I knew “they couldn’t copy the videos ’cause they’re not me, “which was great. “Lo and behold, people started buying stuff for me “even though I wasn’t making an offer in the videos. “I was literally just didn’t know what else to do, “figured out, tried to build goodwill, “and started making videos. “After that, I discovered what to do, “and fast forward to today,” blah, blah, blah, so now I’ve told the story. I’m giving the useful tip section, and the useful tip might be something like this. If you want to stop having to fight the Pixel, stop having to redo your ads, stop having to worry about getting shut down and you really want to be able to scale, the number one thing that you need to do is ask yourself what does a prospect need to see to be true, or in other words, what must you demonstrate to be true in order for them to want to do business with you, and then start putting out content that demonstrates and proves that, and when you put that out and you make, you take all the barriers away, you’re gonna start building an audience of people who know, like, and trust you, and then you can start making traditional direct response offers to that audience. So that’s one useful tip. I’m not going through just giving them a big picture thing. So here’s the way you close it. I always close it the same variation of this phrasing. I’ll say, “Hi, well anyway, I hope you enjoyed watching “this video as much as I liked making it for you, “and if you know anyone else “who might find it helpful, please share. “Till then, take it easy.” That’s it, that’s the whole thing. Right, yeah, so it’s very, it’s very process–
– I have a blow-up of comments here. Jeff is sharing it like crazy. Had is saying, “This is epic, great content.” Shweta, which says, “I love it,” so yeah, we have people that are absolutely loving it, and guys, if you have any question for Frank, then please put the comments here. The question in your comments so then I will be able to ask that question as well.
– [Frank] You know what’s funny is all of those comments prove the validity of the theory, because I literally just followed the exact same framework in teaching this trick.
– It looks like you have done it in your video. It looks like you know what to say there.
– [Frank] But this whole thing has just been a longer version of exactly what that framework is. So it works really, really well, so the fact that people are enjoying it and finding value in it, it’s testament to, it’s not me. I mean it’s just this methodology. Anyone could use the methodology of coming up with how to do it and editing the videos and putting them in post-production, knowing how to create visual engagement and all that is a little bit, there’s a little more to it, and then knowing how to run the ads, there’s a little more to it, but anybody can follow that framework and build a bond with an audience, assuming that you actually can help the audience, which is great.
– Absolutely, so now, we are moving in the next step of this funnel, of this way of getting clients, because at the step number one, we are building this relationship with the client, and then the question is at what point then we ask them, “Hey, this is what I have for you.” What are the steps that are missing now to get to that point and how does it look like?
– [Frank] Well, so first, I’ll help you structure the offer, so here’s how to make an offer using the stuff and then we’ll kind of go back and talk about, okay, here’s when and how to serve up that ad or whatever, so we still use videos to make the offer because they already have bonded with you in video, and now they like watching your videos, so there’s no point in deviating from this. So we’ve kind of fast-forwarded now, it’s been a couple weeks, we’ve been investing and running traffic, we did content, we know what angles of content work because we’ve watched the numbers, and now it’s time to make offers. So the offer videos typically follow the first two steps but in a much more abbreviated fashion, so say, “Hey, this is Frank Kern from kernbranding.com, and I have an ad agency that helps successful, multi-seven-figure businesses grow and scale through online media, and most clients come to me because they’ve been advertising, and stuff was working and now it’s not working anymore because whatever, email is not working. You know the drill if you can relate to this, or stuff is working pretty good but they hit a ceiling in terms of how fast they can– And then, so the really short version of that, and then I seed the offer, so I’ll say something like, “If that sounds like you,” actually, there’s multiple steps in seeding the offer, so the first one is to build empathy. So it’s like, “If that sounds like you, I totally get it. “I’ve been there before. “That’s actually how our agency was born, “and I’ve spent seven figures a year “advertising my consulting company,” and blah, blah, blah, bad stuff happened, it was a major pain in the ass, and then I discovered this thing that you’ve been watching these videos. See now I know they’ve been seeing me, so I can really casual with it. I discovered this method you’ve been watching me teach you the past couple of days, which is intent-based branding, and if you’re interested in having my company do it for you, so now I’ve built empathy, now I’m gonna qualify. So if you’re interested in having my company do it for you and you’re the owner of a business that’s doing seven figures or more and you’re really actually running ads, and now I’ll seed the offers. I just qualified. Now I’ll seed the offer. I’d be happy to jump on a call with you and brainstorm some ideas on how you might actually solve these problems and use intent-based branding in your business, and then I might say something like, “And if you like what you hear, “and you want to become a client, that’s great.” So now I’m going to tell them what to do, and that’s whatever our next step is, and I think four, in this case. Math is not an exact science of steps. So then I might say something like, “So that sounds good to you. “Here’s what I want you to do next. “You should see a little button by this video “or maybe a link above it or whatever, “go ahead and click on it. “It’s gonna take you to my website, kernbranding.com. “You’ll see a little letter there, “kind of tells you how everything works. “If you like what you see, fill in the little form there, “and we can set up a time to talk personally.” So I’ll say that, and then, I don’t actually do this because my prospects don’t have a fear around filling out that form typically, but if you market where someone might have a fear of, someone gonna be a, call me and bother me, is this a boiler room operation or whatever, then say you would address what happens next. So I’ll kind of pretend I’m scripting now for someone who might have that type of reluctant customer. In this space, I might say, “When you go to the site, “you’re gonna see a little letter,” and I would cut to B-roll of the website screen cam version, showing what it looks like. You’ll see itthere. Go ahead and fill it out. After you filled out the form, you’ll see a little video from me just kind of telling you that I got the information and everything, and then I would show them that screen flow of the video of me talking or whatever. Then I might say, “Sherry from my office “is gonna give you a call. “She’s gonna ask you a few questions.” I might show Sherry smiling and waving in B-roll. And I say, “And then, she’s gonna schedule a time “for you and I to talk.” If they’re concerned about commission, salespeople or something, and assuming what I’m about to say is true, I would then advise the video or the client to say something like, “Oh, by the way, “you’re really gonna be talking with me, or either Sherry. “We’re not like some boiler room “with a bunch of commission sharks or anything. “There’s absolutely no pressure,” and make the offer again. I would say, “So if that sounds good to you, go ahead, “click the little button here, and get your call scheduled, “and I look forward to speaking with you soon,” and then I’d close it by saying something really cool, which is, “And regardless of what you decide to do, “I really want to thank you for watching all of my content. “I know you’ve got a lot of people in your inbox “and a lot of people in your newsfeed “that you could pay attention to, and I appreciate it, “that you’re sharing this journey with me, so take it easy.” Just this novel concept And then it works really, really well, and you can use the same approach if you’re selling a book, we do it, we have clients that sell little, tiny cabins. For example, pre-made, custom-made, small cabins that you can live in. They’re like, it’s a really hot niche market, kind of strange but cool, so we’ve got clients that do that, so it’s not just for agencies, info consulting. It’s for really–
– And so it’s also why any business can implement that.
– [Frank] That might be a little general. I’ll tell you the types of companies–
– Do you know which one that which companies do from your experience, this model, so looking at the companies that they’re already turning over at least a million plus, well, is that in a particular niche or industry that you know this works and this works incredibly well?
– [Frank] Yeah, so far, and we’re relatively new, and we have I think 28 clients now. I should know that better, but we get a couple new ones a week and I’m more focused on the actual clients than the number of clients, but they’re really from all over so one company is nationwide mobile orthodontics clinic, for example, that you wouldn’t think what but we definitely can do a good job for them. Another company helps chiropractors. Another company is a brick-and-mortar chain of regional martial arts studios. They’re doing very, very well. Another company is an events company. So it’s, another company is a hedge fund, like a huge money management It’s actually an offshoot of a huge money management fund. Another company is in financial services publications. Another one ai a financial planner that’s regional, so all of that sort of stuff working really, really well. Here’s where I would be hesitant to take a client, ’cause it’s probably better to say, “All right here’s who I would personally be like, “okay, I don’t know about this.” If your audience is very small, so let’s say that your target market is someone who owns a light bulb manufacturing facility in China. Assume that would be really, really–
– That’s super micro niche.
– [Frank] Yeah, and so that doesn’t bother me, but if you combine that with a very low margin per customer that the business has no, and say, “Okay, I wouldn’t do this,” ’cause we can still find them, ’cause we do it for the chiropractor. There’s only 60,000 chiropractors, so our chiropractic clients that actually work with and do stuff for chiropractors, we get them the business but we have to cast a really wide net to people who are probably chiropractors, and then use the front-end content videos as a filter because it’s saying this is specifically for chiropractors, which is why we always say that intro, so no one’s gonna watch it unless they’re a chiropractor or just bored, and so, but those guys have a higher margin, so it’s okay, cancels out the higher cost of acquisition for a lead and for client, et cetera, so that’s the type of environment where I wouldn’t want to do it, or a business that might be super high volume, but really low margin, and there’s no back end, so if they, if it was a someone who had an eCommerce store, selling, I don’t know, bobble heads of Rick James or something,and they make a dollar per bobble head or something, and they’re working great right now because they’re getting super cheap traffic, I probably wouldn’t take them. I have no issue with the business, but I don’t know if we can do a good job with that.
– For we’re using this specific methodology in this model in this method.
– [Frank] Yeah.
– This has been brilliant. I was like, “Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, awesome,” and everyone here is buzzing in the comments. Big shout-out to unstoppable Tracy. Thank you for watching, Tracy. Well, ask question that I have for you before we wrap up is, actually have two more question before we wrap up. One is, is there any question that I haven’t asked you that I should have asked you in regard to this methodology?
– [Frank] Not in regard to the methodology, and I wouldn’t say that here’s what you should have asked me but there is something I’d like to make as a really important point.
– [Frank] And I lose a lot of the Internet marketing crowd here and that’s okay with me because they will ultimately get it or not be in business. The function, all right, so let’s take for a given, all right, first of all, so no one can take what I’m saying out of context, let’s take for a given that, of course, you’re genuinely helping people with your products and services, and they’re good, and you’re living up to your promises, so let’s take that as duh. Okay, if we take that as obvious, then we can really understand that the real purpose of a business is to multiply capital, to multiply money and that’s all any business does, and it multiplies that money through leveraging assets, so we take it all the way down to a really simple example. The person who goes and buys and sells used cars. All they’re really doing is multiplying capital by leveraging assets. Let’s say they have a thousand dollars. They go to an auction, they buy a used car with their thousand dollars. That’s an asset they’ve invested in. They’ve also got a system for cleaning the car up, maybe making minor repairs, and then advertising that car and then they sell the car for, let’s say, 1500 dollars. All they have done is multiply that capital, their initial thousand dollar investment by leveraging assets, which in this case is the car they bought, the system by which they clean it up, repair it, and sell it. So if we take that to be true, we then should always be asking what is the best way to multiply capital in any business, and it is by turning advertising into profit, so I’ll give you some– And so people who are super advanced would be like, “Dude, this totally makes sense.” New people might be like, “Tell me what headline to use,” and I respect that– I still want to get this point is you’re gonna come to this point later in your life. Sooner you get it, the better, all right? So if we think about the richest people in the world, unless they invented something, typically they’re making that money by investing in one way or the other, and then if we look and we say, “All right, well who’s are some of the most famous investors “and most successful investors?” We say, “All right, it’s Warren Buffett,” for example. I looked on, hell, I forgot the website but some website that reports on this stuff. His average annual return is about 21%. If you look at a successful ad campaign, even one that’s moderately successful, typically, you’re gonna have something like a return of 10 to 100% in as little as 30 to 60 days, meaning you put a dollar in, you get a dollar, ten back or you put a dollar in and you get two dollars back. That is not uncommon in any successful advertising, regardless of what strategies saying you have to use my period that’s what it is. If you annualize that, depending on what the returns are, you’re crushing every other investor ever. You’re multiplying capital at a much higher and faster rate than any other type of traditional or even alternative investment, and that I know is a general statement, but let’s say most of them in existence, but people fail to realise it. They view advertising as an expense. If they shift that mindset and start in how can I spend as much as possible? Once you have it going, you don’t want to just throw money away, but if you’re spending, let’s say, 100,000–
– You need to do you’re doing the right thing and they’re applying the right strategy in the right field, but then the returns are going to be there.
– Yeah, so the answer becomes more, so clients will come to me and they’re spending 100 grand on advertising and they want to grow. What should we do? We want to buy a day of consulting with you. What’s the new funnel? What’s the new headline, and a lot of times, it’s like, “Dude, here’s your math. “Okay, you’re spending a hundred. “You’re getting 200. “How about we test spending 200 to see if you can get 400?”
-You know what? I was watching–
– [Frank]350, it doesn’t matter–
– I was watching the video that you did, that you put on IGTV recently about the clients that run the event business, I think, for dentist or something. They were selling, they were doing events that they were selling dentist services or dental services, and what you said in that video is that all you got them to do is say, “Hey, how about you drive more people “to the bloody event? “Because you’re already making good money “from driving these people there, “you put more money into it, more people come, “you make even more money without changing anything.”
– [Frank] Yeah, and it’s easy to forget ’cause it’s so much fun to go down a rabbit hole. So mission number one is find a way to turn advertising into profit. Mission number two is just do more of that. So that’s when clients come to us, say like, “Okay, I got that. “I want to do more of it. “Can this thing help me scale?” And that’s that’s the best person ever to deal with ’cause probably let’s test it. It takes about 60 days or so to find out on a major scale but if you really boil all business down, and again, assuming we’re doing a good job and not being a bad person and lying, cheating, or stealing, so we take all of that as obviously, you’re not doing that, butquestion, how do we turn advertising into profit, and then once you find that answer, how do we keep doing more and more and more, more of that? So the biggest brands, biggest businesses in the world ultimately are the ones that answer that question, and now they’re spending millions a month in ads because 10% of a million, or two million, or three million, or whatever is way better than 10% of 100,000, or 20,000, or 50,000, or whatever it may be. It’s always math, so you always want to look at how can I scale that math out? So I probably just made this way less exciting for a lot of people, but I understand it, because I would have not paid any attention to that years and years ago, but this is a conclusion you’re going to come to if you stay in business long enough and grow, and it’s the right–
– Long enough to see this side of the business world.
– [Frank] Well, no, I mean the faster you come to the conclusion, the faster your business is gonna grow. It’s just not sexy, but it’s real, and this is the way it really is.
– I have one more question for you, Frank, and this is something that I ask everyone on this show. I’m a bit of a geek in terms of finding apps and finding cool tools to make my life or business easier, and I always ask every guest to share one thing that you can use on a daily basis or weekly basis in your personal life. Can be an app, or a book that you’ve recently read, or an audio book that you got, something that made, is making your life better or easier. Can you give an example? Can you give one thing?
– Yeah, raving fan of monday.com. Huge fan of it, so when you have an agency like we do and you have a very rapidly growing staff, communication is the most important thing as this organisation. Obviously, doing a good job is the most important thing, but without communication and organisation, you can’t do it, like nothing works, so we use and depend on monday.com to keep everything systemized and in a process, and have our interpersonal communications all in one spot, and once we got our whole team on that, our productivity went through the roof, we were able to do a much better job for our clients because people weren’t missing out on, I sent you an email, I didn’t see it ’cause nobody freaking opens email because they get a billion of them. Everything’s in its own tight little world there. Super helpful no matter what size your business is. It’s just a great way to organise projects and keep your act together.
– Brilliant. Monday.com, guys, check it out. Before we wrap up, ladies and gentlemen, what I would love you to share is what has been your biggest takeaway from this session that we did with Frank and with this interview. We don’t often do live interviews, but this deserved to go live.
– [Frank] Hey, I mean, if you can’t read, you can also make it. I really should just flip books. I have a library over there in the other rooms. I always forget I’m gonna be on camera, so this– Like a big game–
-That’s why people were buzzing and raving they got the content. I can tell you didn’t give a freak, a damn freak, about the bookshelf, I’ll tell you right now, so.
– [Frank] All right, so that makes another point, which is the content I gave you guys, literally, if you go back and watch it, we followed all six steps in that. At the end of this, I’m gonna say, “Thanks so much for watching. “See you later, bye,” so we gave a useful tip, we gave a point, told a story, framed it, did everything, and I’m here, horrible lighting, with stupid empty bookshelf. I look like some dude in his basement right now. Nobody cares, so that’s one point I want to make is when you’re going down this road, don’t try to make yourself look fancy, don’t worry about that stuff. The hardest clients that we have to deal with are the ones that overanalyze their stuff and wanna look perfect–
– So I don’t need to rent a private jet and Lamborghini?
– No, may even want to strap the Lamborghini to the top of the private jet, then rent a lion, and you want to be riding the lion holding a gold chalice in one hand and 10,000 dollars in the other, and you wanna be dressed head-to-toe in Ed Hardy clothing.
– Thank you very much for the idea. I’m gonna get my team to book it. Thank you. Right, so Frank, I know you have a Facebook training and Facebook Live that you did, and so if people, we are going to put the link here in the comments, and those in the show notes for the blog, but if people want to find out more about you, follow you, where is the best way that they can keep in touch with you?
– [Frank] I would go to, just use my Facebook page, and that is facebook.com/frank.kern.page which I know is a horrible URL but I don’t really, I use Facebook as an advertising platform and have no idea how to do actual social stuff there, but we’re just constantly posting content and I go live from there several times a week, and it’s just a bunch of good, free stuff. I don’t really sell anything anymore other than our services so there’s, I have no funnel for you to opt into, but if you want more of this kind of stuff, check it out, and you will get it.
– Brilliant, guys, so get to Frank’s Facebook page. We’re going to put it in the comments. It’s going to be in the show notes. If you’re listening to the podcast or maybe you’re watching the video on YouTube, wherever you are seeing this interview, then make sure you check it out and keep in touch with Frank and with his incredible new content because this stuff is incredibly good. Want to say a big thank you to everyone who watched live. Everyone is thanking you for Monday.com. Focus on scaling one thing is the biggest takeaway from Shweta. Tracy is saying that videos are really important and why they works and in particular, using engagement campaigns rather than video views, so people are incredibly happy. Frank, thank you very much for being with us, and ladies and gentlemen, thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. Up until next episode, remember that together, we grow exponentially. Bye for now, ciao.
– [Frank] See you guys.